Does anyone own "The Moral Landscape"?

[robvalue]

I must have missed that post yeah, sorry If you could link it that could be great, then I’ll try to comment on it all.

The thing about the phone example is that changing the units just multiplies your answer accordingly. There isn’t any such equivalence between what one person considers wrong, and another. I contend that there is no underlying fact they are both talking about. There’s no simple equivalence like with the lengths. It’s value judgements rather than measurements.

If you try and remove all points of view, then you’re left with "what is considered wrong by everyone", which would be nothing; or "what is considered wrong by no one at all" which is again nothing; or "what is considered wrong by reality itself" which is a rather dumb question. Maybe reality really does have some kind of preference. Maybe it somehow has inbuilt goals and values, or something. That is the only way I can try to make sense of "objective wrongness". That raises yet another moral dilemma: should we care what reality wants? How can we care, unless we can also find out the reasons behind it?

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PS:

It seems to boil down to this.

Can we find facts about what is wrong, before defining what wrong means? No.

Can we find facts about what is wrong, after defining what wrong means in terms that relate to reality? Yes.

Anything else is just trying to conflate the two, as I see it.