Subjective Morality?

[The Grand Nudger]

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40 pages, Benny...40 pages.  It's useless to keep hitting the reset every time you get your questions answered, every time you have an example presented.

This is your normal strategy, bub, and I'm on to you.

You haven't yet provided any satisfactory description of a moral fact, nor really defined anything accurately, nor explained where you think ideas about "ought" originate.  But once the thread gets deep enough, you'll claim to have done it all inside-out, upside-down, and backward, despite having done very little but paraphrase a couple wikipedia pages.

Been through this process before, na?

Are you going to provide any good examples, or are you not?

This is pretty simple...and we've been over it many times.  We both take a cognitivist position.  We both think that our propositions can express beliefs.

We both accept that our beliefs are..at least sometimes...  true.

A true belief..is just another term for a fact.  This is the only justification I need to have to suspect that there are moral facts (or any facts).  

This is why the next question is whether the facts of which our beliefs are constituted are mind dependent.  Subjectivism says they are.  Subjectivism, Benny...says that the facts which constitute our moral beliefs, are facts referring to some mind dependent x. Those are a subjectivists moral facts. You either think that there are moral facts, and those facts refer to mind dependent properties or variables...or you aren't a moral subjectivist.

Yes, a moral subjectivists facts can refer to nothing more than the fact of a person holding an opinion..but that's -their- problem...your problem (purportedly, lol), as subjectivists, not my problem, as a realist. I'm certain that there are moral propositions which reduce to a true statement of someone holding such an opinion...those simply aren't the things I as a realist include in my moral facts. I call them....wait for it.......opinions.

I will include things, such as what will happen to you, if I cut your toe off. There are facts to be had here, and because I am a moral realist, some of them....will be my moral facts. Unless you want to tell me that there are no toe facts, and no facts of what would happen to you if I cut off your toe, you are not objecting to a moral realists moral facts - you have been presented with many examples..even your own....but because you do not understand the subject you are debating with me...you simply haven't realized it.

Yes, this bit right here has been done inside-out, upside-down, and backward - in this thread. Smart money says that we'll be back here again in a few pages, lol.