RE: Lately stuck on WW2 history.
December 6, 2018 at 1:50 pm
(This post was last modified: December 6, 2018 at 1:52 pm by Jackie.)
(December 6, 2018 at 1:32 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:(December 6, 2018 at 12:36 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Again, watching a documentary on WW2. I just found out that radar caught the Japanese fighters planes on radar at Pearl Harbor, BUT dismissed it as scheduled American bombers coming in....... Talk about FUCK ME! Imagine what a blow it would have been to the Japanese fleet if they had taken the radar seriously and not dismissed it and defeated the raid?
Pvts. Lockard and Elliott reported to the "biggest return we've seen" to the Air Information Center just after 7 AM. Guess when all the regular staff left for breakfast?
(December 6, 2018 at 1:17 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The operators did report the blip up the chain of command however the officer on duty had been told of a flight of B-17's coming in that morning ( they arrived in the middle of the attack ) and assumed that was what they had detected.There was no officer on duty at that time. The 2nd Lt. who was there, Kermit Tyler, was just there to "familiarize" with the setup. All the pilots had to do this.
Quote:None of which excuses the failure of the Navy to have a combat air patrol up over the base or of the Army for parking the planes wing-to-wingtip to guard against saboteurs.The Navy wasn't responsible for patrolling the area around Oahu. That was the Army's job. The Army was on Oahu to allow the Navy to stand down when in port. Gen. Short lost sight of this mission.
Quote:And yes, Roosevelt did expect a Japanese attack. On the Philippines, and they were tracking the Japanese invasion force heading south towards Malaya.The War Warning message went out on the 27th of Nov., IIRC.
(December 6, 2018 at 1:31 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Nobody is disputing that. The documentary said that FDR was expecting inevitable war and a declaration of war. But anyone saying FDR let it happen is too much of a stretch for me. Both sides expected it, just not the US and Pearl Harbor. It didn't help that the diplomats sent to give FDR Japan's declaration failed to make that clear. Thus the famous line by one of their military, "I think we've woken a sleeping Giant".The diplomats didn't know about the attack. http://ibiblio.org/pha/pha/misc/surprise.html
And the "sleeping giant" quote was fabricated by the producers of "Tora, Tora, Tora" to give the US audience a slightly upbeat ending.
Fair enough, I did not know that. Thanks for the correction in all seriousness. I will avoid using that in the future.
Bu
(December 6, 2018 at 1:46 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:(December 6, 2018 at 1:42 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Shit, now watching another part of the series, this time, the bombing of Hamburg by our allies. 47,000 civilians killed. Again, translating a letter written by a female survivor, who basically said her flat(apt) building was flattened, fire all around her, wondering where her mother was, but couldn't even cry because she was numb at the " inconceivable horror" surrounding her.
A bombing raid on Tokyo in March 1945 killed more people than either atomic bomb.
Fuck, another fact I was not aware of. I didn't know we bombed Tokyo. If the non nukes killed more in that raid, you'd think with all that damage they'd have given up without the nukes.
