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Human Intelligence is an Illusion
#32
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion
(December 15, 2018 at 10:13 am)The__Chameleon Wrote: As I stated, the secular idea of "Nature" is something purely deterministic, mechanical, algorithmic, or random. Something bound to a set of arbitrary laws or conditions, or something that arises from random chance without any form of mindful choice.

I believe it's still an open question whether the universe is deterministic in some sense. There are senses in which it appears to clearly not be deterministic, given that there appear to be uncaused effects. Whether effect determinately follows cause for things that require causes or not is the trickier question. Saying yes to that question would seem to open the door for magic, among which, free will is but one species. I suppose it also depends upon what you mean by nature as well, as this term is not that easy to pin down.


(December 15, 2018 at 10:13 am)The__Chameleon Wrote: If however the notion to suppress my natural reaction to pain didn't in fact come from my conscious mind but was processed prior to my awareness of it then I have no way of knowing if the methods used were deterministic (x in conditions of y always result in z) or chosen by a consciousness that operates behind the scenes that applies it's own free will. If you are only aware of your destination upon arrival then you can't claim to have chosen the route freely. The secular definition of intelligence can therefore only be applied to mental processes of which one is consciously aware and which one has consciously initiated.

What secular definition of intelligence are you referring to here? My understanding is that intelligence is roughly defined as the ability to solve novel problems. I don't see conscious or unconscious anywhere in that. If I have an unconscious ability to intuitively pick the right diagnosis as a doctor, and many do, that is still an example of intelligence as it is an ability to solve novel problems. The goal itself may be held consciously while the process of reaching that goal is not. I would have to suspect there is a causal relationship between holding a goal, consciously, and our subconscious processes working on that goal. That would seem to undermine any claimed independence of the subconscious processes.
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Messages In This Thread
Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 11, 2018 at 11:31 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Anomalocaris - December 11, 2018 at 11:35 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Chad32 - December 11, 2018 at 11:51 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 11, 2018 at 12:16 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Brian37 - December 11, 2018 at 12:03 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Chad32 - December 11, 2018 at 12:22 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by I_am_not_mafia - December 11, 2018 at 1:08 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by LostLocke - December 11, 2018 at 1:35 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Brian37 - December 11, 2018 at 1:54 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 11, 2018 at 2:04 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Fake Messiah - December 11, 2018 at 2:35 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by unfogged - December 11, 2018 at 2:45 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by I_am_not_mafia - December 11, 2018 at 4:29 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 15, 2018 at 7:20 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by I_am_not_mafia - December 15, 2018 at 7:58 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Fake Messiah - December 15, 2018 at 8:55 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Alan V - December 11, 2018 at 7:43 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Whateverist - December 11, 2018 at 2:40 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Dr H - December 11, 2018 at 7:12 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by I_am_not_mafia - December 12, 2018 at 6:04 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Dr H - December 19, 2018 at 4:33 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by brewer - December 11, 2018 at 3:14 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Angrboda - December 11, 2018 at 6:57 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by no one - December 11, 2018 at 7:50 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Fireball - December 11, 2018 at 8:20 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by ignoramus - December 12, 2018 at 1:55 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Grandizer - December 12, 2018 at 5:26 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by ignoramus - December 12, 2018 at 6:13 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 14, 2018 at 12:11 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by brewer - December 15, 2018 at 8:42 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by I_am_not_mafia - December 15, 2018 at 8:58 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 15, 2018 at 10:13 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Angrboda - December 15, 2018 at 10:20 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Alan V - December 15, 2018 at 1:39 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 15, 2018 at 11:31 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Angrboda - December 15, 2018 at 1:43 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 15, 2018 at 2:22 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Angrboda - December 15, 2018 at 8:41 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Alan V - December 15, 2018 at 8:51 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by brewer - December 15, 2018 at 9:13 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Angrboda - December 15, 2018 at 11:30 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Alan V - December 16, 2018 at 6:59 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by brewer - December 16, 2018 at 8:45 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Angrboda - December 16, 2018 at 10:11 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by brewer - December 16, 2018 at 10:22 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Angrboda - December 16, 2018 at 10:47 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by brewer - December 16, 2018 at 11:29 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 17, 2018 at 10:08 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by brewer - December 17, 2018 at 11:02 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by Angrboda - December 17, 2018 at 11:03 am
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 17, 2018 at 1:00 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The Grand Nudger - December 17, 2018 at 1:07 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 17, 2018 at 1:28 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The Grand Nudger - December 17, 2018 at 1:35 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 17, 2018 at 1:47 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by brewer - December 17, 2018 at 2:09 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The Grand Nudger - December 17, 2018 at 1:51 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The__Chameleon - December 17, 2018 at 2:16 pm
RE: Human Intelligence is an Illusion - by The Grand Nudger - December 17, 2018 at 3:25 pm

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