(January 10, 2019 at 12:47 pm)T0 Th3 M4X Wrote:(January 10, 2019 at 12:37 pm)pocaracas Wrote: That's not how the analogy goes.
It goes like this:
You tell me there's an apple on that tree.
I've spent a good deal of my life passing by the tree and never noticed any apple there.
Still, I take a look.
I see nothing that can be called an apple.
I see balloons, and leaves and other plastic trash that somehow flew over and got trapped on the tree branches.
I just don't see any apple.
Others come by and can't see any apple either.
But some of those others will tell me that there must be an apple, even if they themselves don't see it.
And a few others will tell me that they see the apple.
So, I cannot see the apple, even if I use the highest resolution apple-detector available, I can't find an apple on that tree.
If I can't find the apple and, even some that think there must be an apple will tell me that they can't find it either, I must conclude that the ones that claim to find the apple must have some problem with their perception of the apple.
Either that, or the apple is actively hiding from most of us.
Hehe.... or you flagged something in your mind to see what isn't there...?
It's because it works both ways that it's so difficult to say anything final about the subject.
Perhaps some sufficiently advanced AI will be able to help us out in this.
You're complicating the matter at hand though. We're talking about a tree with an apple. Maybe you've never walked by the tree before or maybe you simply haven't walked by recently. Why add variables and create more bias? The apple isn't determined by balloons, the past, plastic trash, or whatever. It's determined by the attributes of an apple. Put all the trash, balloons, and what not in the tree, and it still will not change the matter of the apple.
Such is the nature of the matter, for if I can't find the apple in the tree, I can't ascertain any other attributes of it. I can't touch it and pick it up, I can't open it, I can't smell it... It is a mighty tree, though.