RE: Is atheism a belief?
January 24, 2019 at 2:14 pm
(This post was last modified: January 24, 2019 at 2:31 pm by Acrobat.)
(January 24, 2019 at 1:27 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:(January 24, 2019 at 1:06 pm)Acrobat Wrote:(January 24, 2019 at 12:58 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: So 20% of people who identify as atheist either filled out the poll incorrectly or don't know the definition of atheist. That's not uncommon, to hear some preachers tell it, an atheist is someone who drinks, fornicates, and doesn't go to church. If you believe that preacher and stop going to church and start fornicating and drinking, you may think that you're an atheist even if you still believe in God. It turns out, evangelical preachers are not a good source for accurate information on atheism. We get some people coming here claiming to be -ex-atheists' who don't seem to have a clue about what atheism is and likely never were actually atheists. Being 'mad at God' doesn't make you an atheist, either (though you might be a maltheist).
(January 24, 2019 at 1:06 pm)Acrobat Wrote: Or people take atheism to mean whatever they feel it means, sort of like gender identity. If he believes in God, but feels more like an atheist, he is an atheist.
Who am I to deny how they feel?(January 24, 2019 at 12:58 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: It's not that kind of identity. It's just one of two possible answers to the question 'Do you believe in any gods or God?'. What's usually happening when they give the wrong answer about what THEY believe is that they don't understand the question or they're being dishonest.
(January 24, 2019 at 1:06 pm)Acrobat Wrote: It’s like “it’s raining, but I don’t believe it’s raining”(January 24, 2019 at 12:58 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I'll give this comment all the attention it deserves.
(January 24, 2019 at 1:06 pm)Acrobat Wrote: But we should also keep in mind that Christians were often labeled atheists for rejecting the Gods of the majority.
So perhaps they’re using it in this sense.
The meaning of atheisms has changed throughout history, and multiple meanings of it are still in use today. Some people see their defintions as holy scripture, inerrant, and needs to be accepted by everyone.
You are correct that in ancient times , the word was used differently. However, 'you don't believe in my gods' is no longer current usage. The usage of 'without God' dates back at least to the 16th century, and it seems to have caught on. I don't see how it advances the conversation to pretend the word is still used the way it was over a thousand years ago. What's wrong with the dictionary definition based on current usage? Neither the Koran nor the Bible nor the Book of Mormon contain the words 'atheism' or 'atheist' so what scriptural definitions are you referring to? In the Bible it says the 'fool says in his heart, there is no God'. I don't agree with the 'fool' part, but it doesn't seem to conflict with the definition of an atheist as a person who doesn't believe in any gods.
I already cited the source, the previous poster quoted me citing it in a post or so above me.
Secondly these other definitions are not inaccurate. They're just a different definition than the one you're promoting.
When self identifications surveys are formed by polling agencies, they place agnostic and atheist in distinct categories. Those that identify as agnostic, outnumber those that identify as atheists. Those that identify as agnostic, seem to rely on the definitions similar to the one I provided, not the one you're promoting.
For atheists, particularly one's on the internet, one definition might be more prevalent than others, while for groups outside of them, like self identifying agnostics, this doesn't seem to be true. They reject your labels.
This doesn't mean your definition is false, it's just that there's more than one definition of atheism and agnosticism.
In fact it doesn't even seem to be true that yours is the prevalent one. When it comes to usefulness, as far as drawing an actual distinction, it's relatively stupid, because it would require multiple fields (agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist, strong agnostic atheist, weak agnostic atheist) etc.. when the only distinction of any real usefulness is between those who believe God doesn't exist (traditional atheism), and those who lack a belief one way or the other (traditional agnosticism).
Most people here would classify as agnostic under the traditional labels, but they seem to want to wear those red A lapels so bad, that they're eager to define themselves as agnostic atheist, kind of like atheist theist.
(January 24, 2019 at 1:36 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:(January 24, 2019 at 1:22 pm)Acrobat Wrote: Why should I have to rely on 20 different terms, when two terms are sufficient for my purposes.
When in doubt, current dictionary usage is very helpful to avoid confusion. You should however, avoid the dictionary if you want confusion. In conversation, you can use any definition you want for any world you want, as long as you can get your audience to go along with it. You can say 'I define parrots as suitcases' and if you can get the people you're conversing with to agree to use that definition, you can move on with your conversation. Otherwise you're going to be stuck.
a·the·ism
/ˈāTHēˌizəm/
noun
noun: atheism
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
When in doubt check out an Encyclopedia:
"Atheism, in general, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings. As such, it is usually distinguished from theism, which affirms the reality of the divine and often seeks to demonstrate its existence. Atheism is also distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open the question whether there is a god or not, professing to find the questions unanswered or unanswerable.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/atheism
Or how about this dictionary definition:
atheism
(eɪθiɪzəm )
Atheism is the belief that there is no God. Compare agnosticism.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dic...sh/atheism
You have your sources to defend your definition, and I have mine.
Quote:Digging into the article a bit, it's 18% who say they believe in a 'higher power', which does not necessarily mean a deity, for example 'the Force' in Star Wars could be called a higher power, but it's not a deity. In twelve-step programs, a 'higher power' can be lots of things besides a deity: nature, consciousness, existential freedom, science (from Wikipedia). 'Higher power' is a vague term that can, and often does, mean something besides 'God'.
Higher Power is synonymous with the term God, or indistinguishable from god:
"higher power noun
Definition of higher power
: a spirit or being (such as God) that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people
belief in a higher power"
Saying you believe in a higher power but don't believe in God, is like those christians who claim christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship.
