RE: Is atheism a belief?
February 24, 2019 at 7:31 pm
(This post was last modified: February 24, 2019 at 7:42 pm by Simon Moon.)
(February 22, 2019 at 11:39 pm)Agnostico Wrote: This is exactly what Im taking about. If ur gonna accuse me of something then provide evidence otherwise u guys just look like such dishonest people.
I haven't lied about anything, nor am i a theologian. U guys just look so untrustworth with that type of crap.
The lies, the deceit, the accusations. the hostile responses, the hypocracy, all of it makes this whole movement look weak.
It's more of a hate movement against religion or anyone who questions them with a skeptical overtone...
The real dishonest people are in here. They need to grow up and think for themselves instead of allowing religion to dictate their opinions
I never said you lied. I said you've been intellectually dishonest. There's a difference.
Here is a possible* example of your intellectual dishonesty.
You said the following about 9 pages into this thread:
Quote:And to think how many blind people are being pushed into atheism like this... Its deceiving to suggest u can't be agnostic without some kind of belief based label attached to it... Its a GIGANTIC fallacy and the more people try to define my position as atheist the more suspicious this all looks.
The reason why this may be an example of your intellectual dishonesty, is because you have been correcte multiple times up to this post of yours, explaining to you the differences between positions of belief and knowledge. And how atheism/theism are positions about disbelief/belief, and agnosticism/gnosticism are positions about what one does not claim to know, or does claim to know.
They are not answers to the same question. If someone asks you if you believe a god(s) exist, and you answer, "I do not know, I am agnostic", you did not answered their question.
Belief is defined by cognitive scientists and philosophers, as the mental state in which one accepts a premise or proposition to be true, or likely true.
Belief is a binary mental state. Either one accepts the proposition that a god exists, or they do not accept that proposition. There is no happy middle ground between belief and disbelief. If you think there is, and that's how you define your agnosticism, then you are using the colloquial definition, not the formal one.
One can be an agnostic atheist - does not claim to know, with absolute certainty, that gods do not exist, but disbelieve they do exist.
Or one can be an agnostic theist - do not claim to know, with absolute certainty, that gods do exist, but believe they do exist.
Or one can be a gnostic atheist - claim to know that gods do not exist, and therefore, disbelieve they do exist.
Or one can be a gnostic theist - claim to know, with absolute certainty, that gods do exist, and therefore, believe they do.
So, Agnostico, please display your intellectual honesty. Please answer the following question:
Do you accept the proposition, as being true (or likely true), that a god exists? I'm not asking whether you know, with absolute certainty, that a god exists, only if you believe it to be true.
* I say possible, because you may have corrected your misunderstandings of agnosticism and atheism since page 9, in which case, this would not be an example of intellectual dishonesty. One of the main demonstrations of someone who is intellectually honest, is someone admitting they are wrong, and correcting their mistaken thinking. Intellectually honest people are extremely happy when they are corrected, because it is a chance to eliminate an untrue belief, and gain a true belief.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.