(March 3, 2019 at 8:32 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:(March 3, 2019 at 4:50 am)Belaqua Wrote: I'm honestly surprised that there is any disagreement about what I've been saying. I'll try once more.
You are making a statement about every single atheist in the world: they do not believe in god. This is true by definition. I have never argued against that.
I am talking about a subset of all atheists. I am talking about adult atheists who live in a society. To be extra careful, I can also specify: atheists who are capable of language and conscious thought. That is, not babies, rocks, or lizards.
What I claim about such atheists is this:
1) All of them have heard claims made by religious people. e.g. "There is a god."
Do you agree with this so far? Is it possible for an adult who lives in a society and comprehends language not to have heard any claim by a religious person?
2) They have found this claim unpersuasive.
Does this make sense to you? If they had found the claim persuasive, they wouldn't be an atheist. But the didn't, so they are still atheists.
3) They had reasons for finding the claim unpersuasive.
This has been the big sticking point. Somebody earlier accused me of being "anti-science" for claiming this!!??
I claim this because when a person hears a religious claim and decides that it's not persuasive, there has to be some prior idea. It may be a good idea (e.g. I have reason to think that only scientific evidence is good, and I have heard none for this claim, therefore I don't find it persuasive.) Or it may be a bad reason (e.g. The nuns were mean to me therefore it must be wrong). But unless the atheist wants to claim that he dismissed the idea for no reason at all--that is, he wants to claim he is a totally unthinking person--there will have been some reason.
Which particular thing have I said which is wrong?
(February 28, 2019 at 7:18 pm)Belaqua Wrote: Atheism is not a lack such that an atheist need not defend it.
Thank you for putting these quotes together.
It should be obvious by this time that the latter, shorter quote is the inevitable conclusion from the outline you posted above it.
If that isn't clear then our communication hasn't been effective.