Is atheism a belief?

[downbeatplumb]

What does that have to do with you (not) knowing what you actually believe?  
The word "know" in this sentence has nothing to do with the content of your belief, just with your belief per se. In your quote "know" is used in relation to the content. This is not the same.

Unless I have a pragmatic reason for believing in something (like the sentience of others than myself), my beliefs are an expression of my knowledge.  For example, I know that people fly in jet planes all over the world; therefore, if you start talking about Skydaddy, then I will say, "I believe God as you describe it cannot represent reality."  It COULD be that Skydaddy is invisible, or wiped out everyone's memory of having seen him in the sky, but I have sufficient knowledge that I'm willing to declare as gnostic atheist about that particular definition.

Now, either you know what Schrodinger's Cat is, or you don't.  If you do, then you'll understand a conditional belief depending on knowledge.  Since the cat itself is in a state of superposition, then if you ask me "Do you belief the cat is alive?" I will be unable to answer you-- I believe it either is or isn't alive, dependent on whether a radioactive particle has decayed; I must hold my beliefs to a superposition.  If I was able to get knowledge about that particle, then I'd be able to form a VERY strong belief, like say 90%, that the cat was alive.  The 10% would depend on my assessment of the reliability of the mechanism, and maybe suspicions about whether the tester was actually willing to kill a kitty.

Let's take a simpler question. I say, "I have an apple on my desk. Do you believe I have an apple on my desk?" You will rely on various bits of knowledge: apples are very common objects, and can often be found on desks but not usually. People don't normally lie for no reason about mundane things, but this guy seems to be trying to make a point. bennyboy is a tricky and dishonest debater, so I think he's likely to lie about having an apple. You will then arrive at a belief with a degree of confidence.

But what if I say, "I have X on my desk. Do you believe I have X on my desk?" You COULD say "Not knowing what X means, I lack a belief in that." But in my opinion, that would be a silly thing to do. What I would do in this case is reserve a belief statement until I collected more information: what does X mean? If it means elephant, I'd say that I believe you do NOT have X on your desk, because I know that elephants are much bigger than desks. If it means pen, I'd say that I believe you DO have X on your desk, since I know that pens are very commonly found on desks. If you refuse to tell me, or are unable to articulate X, then I'd say that I didn't know if X was on your desk, and please stop wasting my time.


This can all be very simply resolved. You tell me what God means, and I will probably be able to formulate and express a coherent belief. Unless you will do that, then I will remain agnostic. Not agnostic atheist, just agnostic.

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If you don't know if you believe then the answer is that you do not believe and are in fact an agnostic atheist.

It is binary, it could change from second to second but at any given time you are either and atheist or a theist.

Who's this "you" you are referring to? It's a shorthand for the verbal expression of a very complex organism, the brain. It's perfectly possible for parts of a brain to disagree on some question of existence. The experience of the conscious ego is this: When faced with a question, you wait for the various parts of your brain to present an answer to your conscious awareness, and then verbalize it. Sometimes, this is difficult-- not because of a lack of anything, but for quite the opposite reason.

A rock lacks a belief. A person in conflict doesn't lack a belief. They have conflicting beliefs which they cannot resolve down to a single answer.

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Please explain what you think the problem with weak atheism is?

Because, as far as I can tell, it is, just not being convinced that gods exist. That seems like the standard

I have no problem with people taking a weak atheist position. However, for me personally, identifying with the lack of an idea is pointless. I don't like being railroaded into a semantic which, while literally possible, is such a poor descriptor of my own state of belief.

If by strong atheism, you mean being convinced, with certainty, that gods do not exist. Then I, and many atheists also hold that position.

Me too, about most God ideas I've been presented with. I consider myself a gnostic Atheist with regard to the Christian God idea/ideas, for example.