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Deconversion and some doubts
#4
RE: Deconversion and some doubts
(July 26, 2019 at 2:35 pm)Jake Wrote: Hey guys!

I was raised Roman Catholic, at moments I was definitely believing some of this stuff. For example, I tried to stay away from masturbation (not really succeed Big Grin ), thought that sex desires are somehow sinful and sex before marriage is bad. After moving out to college I went to church handful of times and after confronting my beliefs with my atheist (at the time) roommate I started to seeing how it all could be false.

It's been around 3 years I started deconverting and I'm still not fully atheist. I feel like religion is still capturing my mind. I know that to some of you some of this stuff might sound pretty silly, but maybe some of exbelievers will be able to help me to sort it out.

Okay, so for the starters I find almost no logical reason to believe in god. Like I can see how someone can find pro-theistic arguments convincing when they start from the position that deity exist, but all of them can be easily refuted.

But I have all these feelings. Like anything that is frowned upon by Catholic church is bad, that I know that Christianity is true, that I'm trying to delude myself from truth, that afterlife exists, that atheist are wrong... it's really messing with me. Like if it's all false, why than am I still experiencing this? I'm in my early twenties, I want to have the best time of my life, party, have sex and stuff Smile But there is still this voice in the back of my head, and though I'm trying to do these things, they are accompanied by worries and guilt. I would like to be convinced that god doesn't exist and start living my only life, but I have this inner block. I'm in the constant battle with myself over this. Also I'm really confused and scared why I feel this way.

Can anyone relate? Any tips? If it's also okay in later posts I will question you about some of my doubts about atheism in later posts. Thanks!

I was also raised RCC. What you are feeling is common. Most deconverts experience it to some extent. The problem is that certain concepts and ideas have been impressed on your mind from your earliest years. Your very mode of thought has been formed by your earliest training when your mind was developing.

As an adult, your mind is pretty much done with that early development period and will never see it again. Never. 

This is not to say that one cannot, as an adult, undo that early training (which I consider borderline child abuse). It is simply that it is far more challenging to do it as an adult. Those carefully implanted habits of thought are not easily broken, and your own mind will sabotage your conscious efforts.

That all sounds rather pessimistic, but it isn't. Plenty have done it. I have done it. People have written books about doing it. You are starting to do it.

Take the guilt thing. This is beaten (sometimes literally) into catholics. Whenever you have that feeling of guilt (and you will) stop for a moment and ask yourself is it justified guilt? Or is it inherited guilt from your early upbringing and not at all justified? Stop and take a moment to rationally and logically consider the question. Your brain has been trained, pretty much from birth to raise feelings of guilt for loads of trivial things. It will do that on autopilot without you even noticing. Thus, whenever you have that oh so familiar feeling of guilt you should STOP and give the reasons for it some cold consideration.

Some of it gets pretty weird. I used to feel guilt at using words like "fuck". But when I was caught using the word, I got the usual "blasphemous" and "lords name in vain" crap. Being a precocious kid, I asked "Does that mean god's name is 'fuck'?" Needless to say, mayhem ensued. I'm 50 now, parents long dead,  but I still think it is a reasonable question  It got an unreasonable response. I let my own kids swear freely, but I make sure they understand context. They are pretty good at it. Why wouldn't they be? By allowing the swear, it's mystique dies and it becomes no longer a forbidden code word of childhood rebellion. And causes no guilt in them whatsoever, with the exception when they commit the faux-pas of using it in the wrong context. Then their guilt is justified. As would mine be in similar circumstance.

Besides, it is such a useful word.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Deconversion and some doubts - by Jake - July 26, 2019 at 2:35 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 26, 2019 at 2:43 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 26, 2019 at 2:51 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Abaddon_ire - July 26, 2019 at 4:30 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by arewethereyet - July 26, 2019 at 4:47 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 26, 2019 at 5:18 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - July 26, 2019 at 5:52 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Abaddon_ire - July 27, 2019 at 12:50 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 27, 2019 at 4:20 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Abaddon_ire - July 27, 2019 at 4:56 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 27, 2019 at 5:07 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Abaddon_ire - July 27, 2019 at 5:12 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - July 27, 2019 at 8:40 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 27, 2019 at 10:40 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - July 27, 2019 at 12:37 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 29, 2019 at 7:27 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 29, 2019 at 4:26 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - July 29, 2019 at 5:28 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 29, 2019 at 10:13 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - July 29, 2019 at 11:25 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 29, 2019 at 11:46 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 3, 2019 at 7:37 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - August 3, 2019 at 9:35 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - August 7, 2019 at 8:43 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 8, 2019 at 7:50 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - August 8, 2019 at 9:51 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 9, 2019 at 10:34 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - August 12, 2019 at 7:36 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Belacqua - August 13, 2019 at 12:31 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - August 13, 2019 at 3:38 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Belacqua - August 13, 2019 at 4:52 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 30, 2019 at 12:24 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 27, 2019 at 5:46 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 27, 2019 at 10:10 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 27, 2019 at 10:15 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by downbeatplumb - July 27, 2019 at 4:00 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 26, 2019 at 5:32 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by arewethereyet - July 26, 2019 at 5:42 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Simon Moon - July 26, 2019 at 5:55 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Belacqua - July 26, 2019 at 6:02 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by tackattack - July 26, 2019 at 9:30 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Fake Messiah - July 27, 2019 at 5:00 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by comet - July 27, 2019 at 8:08 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Jake - July 27, 2019 at 9:16 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 27, 2019 at 10:56 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by downbeatplumb - July 27, 2019 at 11:47 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 27, 2019 at 12:26 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Mister Agenda - July 27, 2019 at 10:09 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Mister Agenda - July 27, 2019 at 10:52 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by HappySkeptic - July 27, 2019 at 1:27 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by downbeatplumb - July 28, 2019 at 5:14 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by LastPoet - July 28, 2019 at 10:07 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by comet - July 28, 2019 at 10:38 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by SteelCurtain - July 28, 2019 at 10:57 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by tackattack - July 29, 2019 at 10:49 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 29, 2019 at 5:50 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Valkyrie - July 29, 2019 at 11:35 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - July 30, 2019 at 12:08 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - July 30, 2019 at 12:26 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 30, 2019 at 6:10 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - July 30, 2019 at 7:00 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 30, 2019 at 11:30 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 30, 2019 at 4:31 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 30, 2019 at 6:24 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Fireball - July 30, 2019 at 8:21 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 30, 2019 at 9:34 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 31, 2019 at 7:46 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by mordant - July 31, 2019 at 9:26 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 10:59 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 30, 2019 at 3:41 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 30, 2019 at 3:58 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 30, 2019 at 4:04 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 30, 2019 at 4:38 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 30, 2019 at 4:33 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 30, 2019 at 4:46 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by mordant - July 30, 2019 at 4:52 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by EgoDeath - July 30, 2019 at 8:15 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 30, 2019 at 9:41 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 30, 2019 at 9:50 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 30, 2019 at 9:51 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 30, 2019 at 10:10 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 30, 2019 at 10:40 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Mister Agenda - July 31, 2019 at 9:03 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 9:23 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 11:03 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 11:22 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 11:33 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 11:43 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 11:45 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 5:48 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - July 31, 2019 at 12:00 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 6:07 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 31, 2019 at 6:20 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 6:31 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 31, 2019 at 7:06 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 7:18 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 31, 2019 at 8:47 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 9:17 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 31, 2019 at 9:36 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 10:22 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 31, 2019 at 10:42 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 10:53 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 31, 2019 at 10:57 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 11:16 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 12:35 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 6:27 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 7:24 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 7:58 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 11:36 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 5:50 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 6:08 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 6:33 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 7:21 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 7:27 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 7:38 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 7:47 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 7:52 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 8:13 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 8:23 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 8:32 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 8:46 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 8:56 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 8:49 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - July 31, 2019 at 9:14 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 9:00 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 9:04 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 9:05 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 9:14 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 9:24 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 9:22 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 10:01 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 9:27 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 9:41 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 10:17 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 10:38 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 10:30 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 10:42 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 10:59 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 10:55 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - July 31, 2019 at 11:06 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 11:04 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 11:08 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 11:18 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2019 at 11:37 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 7:40 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 8:02 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 8:00 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 8:06 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 8:04 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 8:08 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 8:17 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 8:19 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 8:25 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 8:29 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 10:58 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 11:25 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Silver - August 1, 2019 at 11:00 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 11:11 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Silver - August 1, 2019 at 11:21 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 7:31 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Abaddon_ire - August 1, 2019 at 2:54 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 6:23 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 7:22 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 7:32 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 7:36 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - August 1, 2019 at 7:40 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 11:02 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 11:20 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 11:25 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 11:14 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 7:36 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 9:13 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 8:00 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 9:27 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 9:19 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 9:39 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Silver - August 1, 2019 at 9:43 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 9:35 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 9:47 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 9:40 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 10:05 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 9:48 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 9:51 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 9:53 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 10:14 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 10:27 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 1, 2019 at 10:37 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 10:29 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2019 at 10:38 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 12:07 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Silver - August 2, 2019 at 12:16 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by EgoDeath - August 2, 2019 at 4:08 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 8:34 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by EgoDeath - August 2, 2019 at 9:10 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 12:21 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 7:18 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 7:21 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 7:42 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 10:28 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 10:53 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 11:07 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 11:09 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 11:15 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 11:19 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 11:43 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 11:45 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 11:46 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 11:48 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 11:52 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 11:57 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 12:08 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 12:11 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 12:18 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 12:22 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 12:41 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 12:42 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 12:44 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 12:46 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 12:57 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 12:59 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Acrobat - August 2, 2019 at 1:04 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2019 at 1:08 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Abaddon_ire - August 2, 2019 at 4:57 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 8, 2019 at 7:53 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 9, 2019 at 11:39 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - August 12, 2019 at 9:25 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - August 12, 2019 at 10:08 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by Grandizer - August 13, 2019 at 11:28 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Grand Nudger - August 12, 2019 at 11:26 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - August 12, 2019 at 11:42 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Valkyrie - August 12, 2019 at 11:42 pm
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by vulcanlogician - August 13, 2019 at 12:13 am
RE: Deconversion and some doubts - by The Valkyrie - August 13, 2019 at 12:26 am

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