RE: Deconversion and some doubts
July 27, 2019 at 9:16 am
(This post was last modified: July 27, 2019 at 9:57 am by Jake.)
Thank you very much for all the answers!
I need to clarify something - it's not about that I want to things that are against my morality - I don't think there is anything wrong with having sex, partying etc. However I can see how that me referring to this part of life might paint me as an immature individual. I'm not struggling with wanting to do things that I view as bad - I'm not doing these things, at least I try to. I'm struggling with some schemes of thinking that was put in my mind during bringing up that cause irrational feelings about things that I don't find immoral and I don't agree with them.
For example I have the same feelings about women. Rationally, from when I can remember I was always a feminist, but I have these thoughts that really women should be just mother to their children and stay in home. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that - I just think that everyone should have freedom to have any life they want and there is no only one way to live it. Or I have these thoughts about other religions, that they are bad. I'm not really enthusiastic about any of them, but still in my mind there is some superiority to Catholicism. The same goes with gay folks.
I think the it's not about faith that much but about indoctrination. I agree that morality doesn't come from faith (it might partially when you are a believer). I'm not making it about God because I don't really bielieve in one, but I'm kind of making it about religion. I was told from my youngest age that something is bad, I believed in it. It turned out that there isn't really anything wrong about it and I changed my mind. I still feel some guilt and fear of doing the bad thing - that's what I'm talking about.
I'm not even sure how to respond to that.
Firstly, it's not the same thing, finding wallet and not returning it is in fact a theft and is harmful to the owner. Keeping it is a bad thing. Having consensual sex (more and more do I regret briniging it up as an example) is not harmful to anyone, I would even tell that it is the opposite.
It shouldn't be that hard to find some whose "inner voice" is telling them to do something that we both would label as "bad" - Islamic suicide bombers are low-hanging fruit but I will grab it. Therefore we shouldn't rely on it, but rather as vulcanlogician wrote, we should try to make our judgment on the basis of critical thinking.
I need to clarify something - it's not about that I want to things that are against my morality - I don't think there is anything wrong with having sex, partying etc. However I can see how that me referring to this part of life might paint me as an immature individual. I'm not struggling with wanting to do things that I view as bad - I'm not doing these things, at least I try to. I'm struggling with some schemes of thinking that was put in my mind during bringing up that cause irrational feelings about things that I don't find immoral and I don't agree with them.
For example I have the same feelings about women. Rationally, from when I can remember I was always a feminist, but I have these thoughts that really women should be just mother to their children and stay in home. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with that - I just think that everyone should have freedom to have any life they want and there is no only one way to live it. Or I have these thoughts about other religions, that they are bad. I'm not really enthusiastic about any of them, but still in my mind there is some superiority to Catholicism. The same goes with gay folks.
(July 26, 2019 at 9:30 pm)tackattack Wrote: Leaving the faith doesn’t mean your morals change because your morals don’t only come from faith. If you want to party party . If you don’t don’t . Stop making it about God because you were raised in it.
I think the it's not about faith that much but about indoctrination. I agree that morality doesn't come from faith (it might partially when you are a believer). I'm not making it about God because I don't really bielieve in one, but I'm kind of making it about religion. I was told from my youngest age that something is bad, I believed in it. It turned out that there isn't really anything wrong about it and I changed my mind. I still feel some guilt and fear of doing the bad thing - that's what I'm talking about.
(July 27, 2019 at 4:20 am)Acrobat Wrote:(July 27, 2019 at 12:50 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Possibly one of the most childish posts I have seen on this site.
I mean seriously, you expect me to believe that the only reason you are not out there murdering, raping and pillaging is because of a crinkly old book that instructs you to do exactly that? That this is what you want to do? That tells me more about your character than you likely wished to reveal.
No, I was referring to things I’m tempted to do, and the barrier between doing it and not doing it, is that conscience voice, telling us that something is wrong.
I’m saying in those situations just snuff that voice out, reminding yourself that it’s a product of social of cultural conditioning, and should have no real authority over what you do or don’t do.
Do I think peoples behaviors would change if they truly believed this about that voice in their head, about our supposed moral compass, our conscious, etc..? Sure, but luckily for us most people don’t, and think it is a true voice of moral authority over their lives.
I'm not even sure how to respond to that.
Firstly, it's not the same thing, finding wallet and not returning it is in fact a theft and is harmful to the owner. Keeping it is a bad thing. Having consensual sex (more and more do I regret briniging it up as an example) is not harmful to anyone, I would even tell that it is the opposite.
It shouldn't be that hard to find some whose "inner voice" is telling them to do something that we both would label as "bad" - Islamic suicide bombers are low-hanging fruit but I will grab it. Therefore we shouldn't rely on it, but rather as vulcanlogician wrote, we should try to make our judgment on the basis of critical thinking.
