Deconversion and some doubts

[vulcanlogician]

The ought is derived from understanding an ideal... a better than/worse than thing... once you understand that there is "a good" the ought naturally follows from that.

That doesn’t follow. It can stem from an obligation to be like that ideal, but not from merely understanding what the ideal is. I may understand what an ideal basketball player is, but that doesn’t mean I ought to be like him.

You could describe in full detail what an ideally good person would look like to you, nothing in those details obligate me to be like such a person.

And that's the difference between you and me. And that's the difference between you and Plato. Do you think morals are obligations? They aren't.

But for those who realize an ideal and strive to attain it, that is moral realism. Moral realism isn't like the law of gravity that you are compelled to follow whether you want to or not. Moral realism is that which you can either ignore or acknowledge. How you treat others is a reality. It is a significant reality. But no one is forcing you to acknowledge this reality. You could just as easily focus on your personal advancement and ignore the fact that you hurt and abuse others along the way. Nothing is making you acknowledge the reality of the pain and suffering you cause others. But the thing is: the pain and suffering of others is REAL. And when you acknowledge that it is real, then morality becomes an objectively real thing.

This is one of my favorite quotes from Plato's Republic. It is about what a philosopher is. It has nothing to do with God. It has everything to do with Truth.

Those who belong to this small class have tasted how sweet and blessed a possession philosophy is, and have also seen enough of the madness of the multitude; and they know that no politician is honest, nor is there any champion of justice at whose side they may fight and be saved. Such a one may be compared to a man who has fallen among wild beasts --he will not join in the wickedness of his fellows, but neither is he able singly to resist all their fierce natures, and therefore seeing that he would be of no use to the State or to his friends, and reflecting that he would have to throw away his life without doing any good either to himself or others, he holds his peace, and goes his own way. He is like one who, in the storm of dust and sleet which the driving wind hurries along, retires under the shelter of a wall; and seeing the rest of mankind full of wickedness, he is content, if only he can live his own life and be pure from evil or unrighteousness, and depart in peace and good-will, with bright hopes.