Deconversion and some doubts

[GrandizerII]

Oughts implies duties and obligation, all of which implies rules, regardless of whether those rules are explicitly spelled out, or listed in their entirety.

If they didn't imply a rule, than it wouldn't be oughts at all. It wouldn't be I ought not steal, but rather synonymous with wishes, I wish you didn't' steal.

Sure, you're talking about oughts in the authoritarian sense. And I believe I have been going along with how you view oughts rather than look at oughts differently. To you, oughts require some form of rule-maker/rule-enforcer authority. And I am saying that the various human societies over the centuries have been playing that role quite easily. Thus, my answer to your question of where oughts come from.

It doesn't matter if you don't like that society has played the rule-maker/rule-enforcer role. Fact is, it has. And it doesn't even matter if you think society is a poor form of such authority. The answer stays the same.

And you need oughts for any sort of coherent moral statement, such as the holocaust is wrong. People ought not do things like the holocaust, rather than I wish people didn't do things like the holocaust.

Nope, not with the way you're describing oughts. "X is wrong" need no authoritarian rule-maker for it to be so. The holocaust is wrong because it caused death and suffering to a very large number of innocent people out of extreme prejudice towards them, not because <the Good entity says it is wrong>. There is no need for authoritarian ought here in order for the Holocaust to be wrong, though society (at the global level) has nevertheless enforced the dictum that such things as the Holocaust ought to not be committed.

If you still disagree, than perhaps you can tell me what you think the difference is between saying someone ought not steal, and saying I wish people didn't steal? What is the nature of "ought" as distinct from the nature of a "wish" here?

According to you, the difference has to do with authority. According to me, it's irrelevant what the difference is. What's relevant is who decides the rules here: humans or God. It's very clear to me that humans are the ones doing so because God (if it does exist) has stayed silent this whole time.