RE: Evidence for Believing
September 18, 2019 at 7:59 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2019 at 8:09 pm by Simon Moon.)
Here we go again...
This is what you believe, we get it. But without GOOD evidence, we have no reason to believe you.
But I ask again, why would your god, provide us with the ability to figure out a method, that actually can be demonstrated to differentiate fact from fantasy for every other aspect of reality, yet for his existence, he purposely hides from said method?
How do you know a god has directly impressed you with his awareness? How have you ruled out other possibilities? How do you know that other believers are relaying actual experiences with a god?
How did you rule out your confirmation bias? How did you rule out a super advanced alien civilization, that loves to mess with humans?
Okay, for argument's sake, let's say ghosts exist. How would their existence provide evidence for a god? Many Buddhists sects believe in ghosts, yet have no god beliefs. So do indigenous peoples from all over the world.
Yes, and at one time the vast majority of humanity believed the sun orbited the earth, gods threw lightening, mental illness was due to curses, and so many other false beliefs.
Once again, no matter how impressed you are by the number of people that have a belief, how long the belief has been around, how educated the people that have the believe are, we are not impressed by fallacious reasoning.
Revelation is by definition, hearsay to anyone other than the experiencer. So, any person with a modicum of critical thinking skills, should not be convinced by others stories.
One doesn't have to be delusional in all aspects of their lives and experiences, in order to mistake an otherwise natural, but non-normal brains state, for a supernatural experience. After all, people have been triggered by electrical to their temporal lobes, to have fully realised 'religious experiences'.
How did you rule out something like this for your experience?
The reason why we use the example of the sun orbiting the earth, is not to point out theists have this false belief, it is only to point out, that the number of people that have a belief provides zero evidence that said belief is true.
Because, it is bad evidence. Bad and fallacious reasoning.
(September 18, 2019 at 6:37 pm)Lek Wrote: I've been asked a zillion times in this forum to give evidence for why I believe in God and each time the questioner comes back and tells me that's not real evidence. Here's the situation. We have a being who is supernatural. He/She/It can exist without the need to obey any natural laws and therefore, cannot be understood or explained by natural or scientific means.
This is what you believe, we get it. But without GOOD evidence, we have no reason to believe you.
But I ask again, why would your god, provide us with the ability to figure out a method, that actually can be demonstrated to differentiate fact from fantasy for every other aspect of reality, yet for his existence, he purposely hides from said method?
Quote:I always reply that I believe because God has directly impressed me with the awareness of his existence. I list supporting factors as the witness of other believers, evidence of ghosts and other supernatural phenomena, etc.
How do you know a god has directly impressed you with his awareness? How have you ruled out other possibilities? How do you know that other believers are relaying actual experiences with a god?
How did you rule out your confirmation bias? How did you rule out a super advanced alien civilization, that loves to mess with humans?
Okay, for argument's sake, let's say ghosts exist. How would their existence provide evidence for a god? Many Buddhists sects believe in ghosts, yet have no god beliefs. So do indigenous peoples from all over the world.
Quote: A very conservative estimate of the number of people in the world today who believe in God, in this scientific age, is five billion. These people are from every profession and walk of life.
Yes, and at one time the vast majority of humanity believed the sun orbited the earth, gods threw lightening, mental illness was due to curses, and so many other false beliefs.
Once again, no matter how impressed you are by the number of people that have a belief, how long the belief has been around, how educated the people that have the believe are, we are not impressed by fallacious reasoning.
Quote:If God directly illuminates me through supernatural means which cannot be tested by any natural means, how can I give you any other solid evidence other than to relate my experience?
Revelation is by definition, hearsay to anyone other than the experiencer. So, any person with a modicum of critical thinking skills, should not be convinced by others stories.
Quote:You might say I'm suffering from a delusion, but I have no other history of delusions and billions of others who have no history of delusions also believe in God. Billions of these people are moderately or well-educated and realize that the earth revolves around the sun, as you do.
One doesn't have to be delusional in all aspects of their lives and experiences, in order to mistake an otherwise natural, but non-normal brains state, for a supernatural experience. After all, people have been triggered by electrical to their temporal lobes, to have fully realised 'religious experiences'.
How did you rule out something like this for your experience?
The reason why we use the example of the sun orbiting the earth, is not to point out theists have this false belief, it is only to point out, that the number of people that have a belief provides zero evidence that said belief is true.
Quote:Why don't you accept this as evidence for God?
Because, it is bad evidence. Bad and fallacious reasoning.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
