An Essay about Atheism in Latin

[GrandizerII]

Apologies, I didn’t mean to say that you had said anything wrong about the Five Ways. (It should be clear to everybody that you are among the most careful posters here.) I meant to say “we” in the most inclusive way possible. And of course I had recently referred to Dawkins’ very poor explication. 

Oh ok, I should've kept in mind the wider context of your post and reinterpreted accordingly. My bad.

I honestly think that some people begin with the assumption that anything in theology will be so stupid and obvious that it takes no effort at all to knock it down. And that it’s so wrong that we are entitled to just type out and publish whatever occurs to us.

That's fair. Many of us do have this inclination, true. I certainly do based on my own prior experiences with the arguments in general. Nevertheless, I agree we should be careful in our analyses of any argument made by theologians and be humble in our addressing the argument. After all, lots of intellectual effort has been put into these arguments, backed by centuries of intellectual thinking on the relevant subjects, so the least we could do is think carefully about these arguments and be honest in our search for any flaws in the argument, if any. And if we can't find any obvious flaw, or think of a knockdown argument, then better to just admit we're unable to.

So yeah, it would be unfair to compare theology to astrology (at least the stuff I'm familiar with). That said (and I'll admit I say with very possibly with lots of ignorance), there does seem to be this one dominant theme in theology that generally constrains the range of thinking allowed in the field, and that is the dogmatic belief that "God exists". And I'm not sure I've ever heard a convincing counterargument to the contrary. Even in natural theology, where the aim is to get at the conclusion "God exists" rather than assume it, it would seem rather far-fetched to hear of a case in which an argument is made that rationally arrives at the conclusion "God does not exist" and is nevertheless accepted in theology. I'm sure there are atheist theologians out there, but I get the impression they're more in it for the intellectual exercise and aren't concerned about debunking arguments for God's existence. Again, this is the general (and honest) impression I get, and so not necessarily a statement of facts.

You’re right, of course, that a serious search on the Internet can teach us what we need to know. With the caveat, of course, that since any fool can make a web page what we find is likely as not to be wrong, and it’s a mistake to settle for whatever explanation jibes with our own initial thoughts.

Absolutely. I did not emphasize that well enough in prior post, but we're in agreement here. If I want to understand theology well, better to seek articles written by theologians that explain the arguments well than by atheists like Richard Dawkins. And better to consult multiple sources from different theologians.

As for the rest of what you said, look, you definitely have a better handle of these arguments than I do, and you have clearly devoted a lot of time to them, and are willing to be as honest and as fair as possible in your treatment of them, and yet nevertheless you don't find them convincing as well. I would say that's confirmation that perhaps they're not strong arguments after all.

Regarding that book, I believe you brought this up a couple times before. I'm in the process soon of searching this book up on Kindle and then purchasing it for reading. Might even post about it in your Book Reports thread.