RE: In what way is the Resurrection the best explanation?
October 25, 2019 at 12:47 pm
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2019 at 12:48 pm by Vicki Q.)
(October 24, 2019 at 10:55 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Which, according to many NT scholars, started out as an earthly apocalyptic claim at the start (which wasn't that remarkable given other contemporary sources that were apocalyptic in theme as well), and then when things didn't occur as predicted, evolved to a more spiritual coming of the Kingdom.I've reread this a number of times, and you're going to need to unpack it a bit, I'm afraid. There was a series of apocalyptic writings around, and these were read in a variety of ways, but with similar themes. God's people would be forgiven; there would be a victory over God's enemies; there would be judgement etc.
Usually this involved getting the Romans out, but something about a suffering servant and (perhaps) resurrection were lurking. The claims of Judeo-Xianity were consistent with the broad stream of interpretation, but were highly innovative within it. That needs explanation.
And, very importantly, what the early church proclaimed was not any kind of failure that needed explaining away, but a great stonking success. What had been promised had been delivered, but so much more. Not occupying a patch of land in the Middle East, but a claim on the World. The promise to Abraham to be a blessing to the nations fulfilled as a final redemption. This was the claim right from the start, back before Paul's wrote about it, and even before Damascus, being that Jesus had inaugurated the Kingdom.
Quote:To me, this seems to be begging the question.Not really. No-one was expecting an early pre-general-resurrection to be a thing, so it needs explaining.
Quote:Even if the belief itself was unique at the time and not very Jewish (and this is a big if), it served early Christianity well to hold to this as a central doctrine. The purported Messiah, after all, failed to save his people from the Roman occupants, as had been hoped for. The Resurrection thesis helped to rescue the early movement from this embarrassment.Why bother saving it? He's dead, he didn't liberate Israel, so beyond doubt he's not the Messiah. By definition. Moving on ASAP was universal and routine procedure for the followers of dead wannabe Messiahs in C1 Israel.
Quote:Again, feels like begging the question.We have different questions. Mine is where they're getting this odd set of worth-dying-for beliefs from?
Quote:...some of the claims you made assume the Resurrection happened and the other claims didn't point to evidence that favors it against other alternative explanations.
The Resurrection is a hypothesis that best explains things, not an assumption.
I'm not sure what alternatives you're proposing. If it's 'this is all made up from scratch and evolved massively over time', could you point me to the evidence for that claim.
(October 24, 2019 at 10:49 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:(October 24, 2019 at 4:38 pm)Vicki Q Wrote: ; that the universe, humanity and God's people had been freed;
Universe was freed? From what?
All the bad stuff was served with an eviction notice. Wars, disease, racism, Manchester United, strokes, rush hour traffic, blindness and the like.