RE: Search for Causes
December 31, 2019 at 1:07 am
(This post was last modified: December 31, 2019 at 1:26 am by Deesse23.)
(December 30, 2019 at 10:54 pm)Lek Wrote: If I had an experience which I sincerely believed was God talking directly to me, how would I be able to prove or disprove what I believe?Why do you believe it was god anyway? If you admit you cant prove/disprove to others what the cause of your experience was, how do you justify your belief to your own conscience? Because you have experienced it yourself? Because it was so convincing? Have you ever asked people who took drugs like LSD about how convincing their trip was?
(December 30, 2019 at 10:54 pm)Lek Wrote: If I had advanced stage cancer and it suddenly disappeared or went into remission, how could it be proven to be from natural, rather than supernatural causes?If you are late to the bus stop (you woke up late...) and you still catch the bus because the bus was late too, how could it be proven to be from natural rather than supernatural causes?
I am chosing this example, because it doesnt matter if an event is important to you personally. The cause can be proven (or not) to be supernatural. I bet you wouldnt bet "magic" was the explanation for you catching the bus in time.
If you cant prove otherwise, events are supposed to be natural, because we live in ....hold on, wait for it.....here comes the kicker, you wont believe it....its shocking, i know.... a natural world!
I am always flabbergasted when people present supernatural next to natural as an option as if supernatural ever, even once had been shown to having been the cause of anything.
(December 30, 2019 at 10:54 pm)Lek Wrote: If natural science was unable to determine the cause, what method could I use to determine if the origin or cause of these was supernatural?A method that demonstrably works. A method that already has worked in the past. A method that is reliable (leads repeatedly to correct results).
If you havent got a method, its "unknown", and the default is "probably natural". I know its boring, unspectacular and probably uncomfortable. But, whats your goal? Looking for truth or comfort?
(December 30, 2019 at 10:54 pm)Lek Wrote: Should I pursue other avenues or rely on science to eventually come up with an answer?Any avenue that gives correct results. Unfortunately science is currently the only one having been demonstrated to work. Not sciences fault that hand waving fails so often.
(December 30, 2019 at 11:45 pm)Lek Wrote: https://www.verywellhealth.com/spontaneo...le-3971875
Why do you dismiss the supernatural out of hand when science can't answer the question? Why not pursue that option? I think it's because science has specific boundaries and you refuse to try to go beyond those boundaries. You have complete trust in a method that leaves so much unsolved. Einstein died still not accepting quantum theory because he couldn't get past his preconceived notions.
No one dismisses the supernatural. Rather you are trying to showhorn it in. Why?
If you dont know, the intellectually honest answer is "i.dont.fucking.know", and keep on looking. Proclaiming "its magic!" wont help you at all in understanding what happened.
(December 30, 2019 at 11:45 pm)Lek Wrote: Why do you dismiss the supernatural out of hand when science can't answer the question? Why not pursue that option? I think it's because science has specific boundaries and you refuse to try to go beyond those boundaries. You have complete trust in a method that leaves so much unsolved."unsolved" =!= supernatural
(December 30, 2019 at 11:45 pm)Lek Wrote: Einstein died still not accepting quantum theory because he couldn't get past his preconceived notions.False equivocation. "We" dont have a preconceived notion that the supernatual does not exist, but you have the preconceived notion that it does. As is shown by your repreated attempts to shoehorn "supernatual" in where we (and you!) "dont know". So far you havent shown a method by which you could demonstrate that your belief in the supernatural is warranted.
Einstein had all the info availiable to him. All the theories and math of his colleagues, even some data. He was wrong, because of his preconceived notion that something is false (oposed to what already was knows and demonstrable), as you are wrong in your preconceived notion that something is true (the supernatural)
Yes, spontaneous remission of cancer. I have an an opinion about it and you have another one. We both cant prove it either way, but i have methods with some high quality that you dont have.at.all. The confidence and reliability with which i form my opinion is infinitely better than yours. Which leads me in most cases to not being conned, fooled or just being wrong by myself, contrary to you. Thats the difference.
1mio years ago people were warranted to believe the earth was flat, because the didnt have the tools to figure out its not. Its not about what we believe but about the quality of our tools to find out whats true, aka. epistemology.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
