RE: Search for Causes
January 4, 2020 at 1:41 pm
(This post was last modified: January 4, 2020 at 2:01 pm by Lek.)
(January 3, 2020 at 9:39 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote:(January 3, 2020 at 9:10 pm)Lek Wrote: No. God is whomever or whatever he is. I just happen to believe that he's supernatural, which is the view the vast majority of believers throughout history believed or believe. It makes sense to me.
That's not, at all, how those terms work. When we add the caveat things make sense "to me" we are explicitly acknowledging that they do not, in fact, make sense. This is the sort of novel and useless employment of terms that you're never going to slip past when we have these discussions.
On top of that, you're plain and simply wrong. Most people, who have believed in most of the gods, throughout most of history..did -not- view gods as "supernatural". That's why I asked you why you needed it. Whether you'd prayed on it, studied it, or received any enlightenment. The god that you believe in was a departure from the norm. There's an entire age named after the trend in belief.
What is it doing, for god..or for you, except saddling you both with shit that neither of you wants to or even can defend? As you say, a god, if it is, is what it is. A god, if it goes around curing cancer, does it however it does as well. Is there some specific reason that a god can't be natural, or that a god can't use natural means? If not, and you seem unattached to the notion now..why have you spent all these pages going to bat for it? It's useless and unimportant to you. Nothing but a liability. It's not even a good faith argument if we were going back and forth for the lulz.
I'm over here throwing you a lifeline. You don't have to say shit like this, or make arguments like these. You wanna know what, I bet that you don't even believe in the supernatural. It's just a word you use, an entirely pavlovian response. What's different about the supernatural that god uses from the world that god made? Nothing.
Or do you lack the conviction of your faith in the nature of gods creative act?
Just because I believe God is supernatural doesn't mean I would not accept a God who is totally natural if that was the case. Also, a god who has control over nature to achieve his purposes is supernatural.
(January 4, 2020 at 7:50 am)LastPoet Wrote: Paul, according to the lore, was skeptical of Jesus, then god presented him with the riad to Damascus experience. Why doesn't god do the same for us?
I don't know. Should he?
(January 4, 2020 at 12:36 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Sure. Again, if you’re proposing magic as a cause, it can be and do anything you want or need it to be and do, right? It can explain away any problem with logic and any lack of evidence for itself, right? It can conveniently explain why people don’t find your arguments in favor of its existence persuasive. Right? But, you’re starting with your conclusion again, Lek. What reason do you have to believe any such supernatural being is even possible? How have you determined the likelihood of a cause that is, by your own definition, untestable?
There's your circular reasoning. I say billions of educated, sane people believe or believed in God and the supernatural and you begin with with the premise that I'm proposing magic. You use these kind of terms to try to denigrate what I say. Your premise is that the supernatural doesn't exist, therefore the argument can't be true. I say that God enlightened me and you say that that there could be other reasons why I believe that and, anyway, God doesn't exist, so God can't be one of the options. If you were open minded you would say "Wow, billions of people believe this. They're appear to be normal educated people. We've haven't proved that they are wrong. Maybe they are right. I don't believe it, but we need to further investigate this further anyway."
