RE: Agnosticism IS the most dishonest position
February 18, 2020 at 10:43 am
(This post was last modified: February 18, 2020 at 10:48 am by Mister Agenda.)
(February 17, 2020 at 2:36 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:(February 17, 2020 at 1:32 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: However, there being only two options does not mean you have to select one as your position.
In the case of the existence of God. You do select an option. If you live as though God doesn't exist, that is, you're not following any religion or spirituality, then you practically did go for the second option [God doesn't exist]. I mean by God here the deity with the three-omni properties of course, and the just kind of deity.
My main point is that, if you sincerely exhausted all possible avenues looking for a just deity, then this deity surely doesn't exist. But then again it all comes down to exhausting all possible avenues.
It's entirely possible that a just deity could exist without me finding it. Now a tri-omni God is ridiculous and does not exist, it falls apart under its own definition, attributes, and premises.
The problem of evil applies to a tri-omni God: if it's all-powerful and all-benevolent; it wouldn't create a universe with creatures capable of suffering. The existence of suffering is evidence against that version of God being real.
A tri-omni God knows all of it's future actions and because its knowledge is perfect, it can't do otherwise; but an omnipotent being could choose to do otherwise that it foresees...but if it does, it wasn't truly omniscient, it was wrong about what it was going to do.
Not to mention all the things I can do that a tri-omni God cannot: grow, learn, make mistakes, repent, be surprised, fail, doubt, and regret; a tri-omni being is the most alien creature imaginable. But it doesn't exist. It attributes are incompatible with each other. It's clearly the result of generations of religious people claiming their god is greater than anyone else's until they hit 'it knows everything and can do anything and loves everything more than anyone'.
But the god of deism might be real, or an intervening god that doesn't always know what the long-term effects of its actions will be. The God of the Bible and Koran is said to be all-powerful and all-knowing; but it acts a lot like a human capable of being surprised (or at least being angry about somebody doing something that supposedly it knew they were going to do for eternity) and doing things it later regrets. The deity you're claiming that logically would be above all that isn't real.
(February 17, 2020 at 2:36 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:(February 17, 2020 at 1:32 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: don't believe the 'no god' option is true either; but I personally assign it a high probability because I think it's more likely to be true.
Then you're not an agnostic. I am also curious to know how you reached this high probability of non existence.
I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't know there's no God, I just think it's unlikely. The tri-omni God falls apart on close examination; the other versions of a creator God and the other gods are indistinguishable from campfire stories. For any god to be real, the supernatural also has to be real, and no supernatural claims have ever stood up to close scrutiny. The tri-omni God is impossible and the others have no evidence. The God of deism is the most coherent and it still lacks any evidence at all in support of its existence.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.