RE: A possibly new perspective on this thing that we know as God.
March 17, 2020 at 8:37 pm
(This post was last modified: March 17, 2020 at 8:38 pm by Belacqua.)
(March 17, 2020 at 6:26 pm)Rahn127 Wrote: Unity, I am going to make two statements and then demonstrate the truth of one of them.
We'll start with three objects. A 2x4 piece of wood, a metal hand saw and a piece of fruit (an apple)
Statements
1. I can use a hand saw to cut a 2x4 piece of wood in half.
2. I can use an apple to cut a 2x4 piece of wood in half.
I can demonstrate the truth of statement #1 by using the saw to cut the 2x4 in half.
I cannot demonstrate statement #2 because it is not true. I cannot use an apple to cut a 2x4 in half.
Right. Hand saws were made to cut wood. Natural selection selected for apples because they do other things. Apples weren't selected for in order to cut wood. So far so good.
Quote:Now let's say that I make the statement that the hand saw is divine.
How do I demonstrate that ?
First, we'd need a useful definition of the word "divine."
Quote:Does it's ability to cut a 2x4 in half demonstrate divinity ?
That depends on the definition of "divine," but according to common definitions, no.
Quote:If a god can cut a 2x4 in half, then doesn't that make the saw divine ?
No.
Quote:It's doing something that a god can do right ?
Maybe. It depends on your definition of "god," or "omnipotent," etc. A lot of people would say that god wouldn't be bothered to cut wood. But if it is part of his nature, he would weave into the fabric of the universe people's goals, and their goals could be brought about in part by cutting wood, and therefore the desire to cut wood would arise. And then the people would invent saws and use them to cut wood.
Quote:And if a god can do anything, then doesn't that make everything divine ?
I don't see how that follows at all. If a god could cut wood, but a beaver did it instead, how does that make the beaver divine? If a god could do something but doesn't, why is that thing always divine?
Quote:And if everything is divine then the word divine really has no meaning in a world that doesn't have any gods in it.
It's just some extra imaginary paint added onto an existent object without any need to.
First we'd have to demonstrate that everything is divine, and in what way. If god is what holds the world and its laws in existence, as many religious people believe, then the world does depend in some way on the divine. But whether that means everything IS divine or not would require further argument.
You're right that if the world doesn't have a god or gods, then the word "divine" would have no meaning. So we'd need to establish that. Whether the concept is an unnecessary addition or a metaphysical necessity would require strong arguments.
Quote:Or maybe, just maybe......
a saw demonstrates that a strong material with a certain shape can chip away small pieces of wood from a 2x4 in a cutting motion.
And that's it.
That's all it does.
In and of itself, that is all a saw demonstrates. So I'd say you have successfully argued that the existence of saws is not in itself sufficient to prove the existence of God.