RE: Scripture for Trinitarians
October 24, 2011 at 5:07 pm
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2011 at 5:08 pm by lucent.)
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: ...and we have any kind of evidence as to what this universe was like prior to this "sin" coming into the universe to corrupt it so you can confidently make such a statement?
Btw, "The Bible says so" =/= evidence.
The bible is a historical record and counts as evidence. I trust it is accurate for three reasons. One I know God exists. We agree on this one. Two I know that God is the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. Three I know God doesn't lie.
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: And how does "sin" corrupt exactly? Is it some sort of unseen substance like Dark Matter? Is there any way we can study its effects? Perhaps it's like radiation that mutates DNA to cause birth defects? Have there been any peer reviewed studies on this matter?
Sin brought death into the world. The human body was designed to be immortal..I'm sure you've heard the research which shows that there isn't any reason our cells have to degrade, but rather it is something which seems programmed in. It's death which causes the physical corruption, and evil which causes spiritual separation from God.
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Or maybe it's all just a load of crap sold by religion to create a problem that doesn't exist (your souls is full of sin/thetans/past life trauma/etc) so they can solve your problem for you if you just give them all your money and believe what they tell you to believe.
Or maybe this is true:
2 Corinthians 4:3-4
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing.
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: How many conjoined twins were successfully separated by prayer or some other metaphysical approach?
It's not impossible, and even if it never happened once, it proves absolutely nothing.
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Let me try to explain it to you in a way that you can understand:
I have no trouble following you. What I am hoping is that you have a more in depth understanding, and can come up with an intellectually honest viewpoint.
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Power + Awareness = Responsibility
False. If you have the power to create a Universe, and you know you are going to create all sorts of lifeforms that are going to suffer and die in the process, you are morally culpable for all of it. Only a being who is completely morally bankrupt would go ahead and create the Universe anyway.
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: If God doesn't exist..This is why atheists aren't angry with God.
False. If God does exist, the atheists are angry with God. The possibility of God not existing doesn't explain anything away, because the opposite is also true.
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: If God does exist but is not powerful enough to create a better universe or eliminate evil wherever it exists, God is not morally responsible for the ills of this universe. It isn't God's fault because God doesn't have the means to do a better job.
If God does exist but is not aware of our plight, God is not morally responsible for the evils we suffer. It isn't God's fault because God didn't know.
If God does exist but is neither omnipotent nor aware of our plight, both of the last two statements apply.
He knew enough to know that His actions would lead to untold suffering, death and destruction. He knew His creatures would be crying out to Him, searching for answers that would never come, dying in bondage to cruel forces and dying without any hope. He did it anyway. If you're playing with a gun and it goes off and kills someone, you are responsible for their death regardless of how stupid and incompetant you are. These options at best makes God a mentally deranged psychopath.
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: If, as you suggest, God is perfect, omnipotent and omniscient, then God has a lot of explaining to do.
He already explained it, and also did something about it.
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Nope. Two conscious beings = two conscious beings, regardless of the shared body.
See my mad scientist example in my last post. If a mad scientist stitched my head to another person's body, with their head still attached, we'd be still be two beings.
If you share a body, you are in a very real sense "one" with that person. There is no separation between you besides in your mind, and I have read that people who are born with these disorders do experience a conjunction in certain aspects of consciousness.
(October 24, 2011 at 3:50 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: But the passages suggest that he didn't know things that Yahweh knew and he had a separate will and design from Yahweh. There were two identities, not one.
Yes, Jesus had His own will due to His human nature. Jesus had two natures, one being God, which is one with the Father, and one being Human, which was separated from the Father. He still had one identity, that is, the Son of God.