RE: A.S.K. your way to proof.
April 30, 2020 at 12:05 pm
(This post was last modified: April 30, 2020 at 12:38 pm by Mister Agenda.)
(April 29, 2020 at 1:31 pm)Drich Wrote:(April 29, 2020 at 10:47 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: There's a big difference between 'noted' and 'king'. Atheism isn't a movement (notwithstanding Conservapedia), although atheists can be part of a movement. There are a lot of atheists in the Skeptical Movement if that's what you're thinking of.
Voltaire not an atheist, noted or otherwise, he was a deist, I think of more note would be Lucilio Vanini, freethinking pantheist executed in 1619 for his supposed atheism by having his tongue cut out and strangling, followed by burning his body. Atheists are more likely to quote Epicurus (341-270 BC), paraphrasing his famous trilemma, than Voltaire.
And you didn't address where you pulled your estimate of 3.5% of the world's population being atheist in the 1700s. I don't know how anyone would have arrived at that number, and it sounds way too high. Are you sure it wasn't just France?
His house being used to store Bibles is typical low-class petty vengeance on the part of the Christians involved. Today it is a museum.(April 29, 2020 at 1:31 pm)Drich Wrote: So there is that says you are pulling info on voltare out of you bum...
Voltaire expressed his contempt towards organized religion and its disregard for human suffering in his famous satirical novel, Candide. He targeted Leibnitz’s teaching that “all is for the best” by creating characters that fall into miserable situations and face both internal and external strife by attempting to fit it into the church’s world view.[1] The only place free from Voltaire’s critiques was a made up New World town known as El Dorado where the only religion is an appreciation for life and nature.[2] El Dorado represented Voltaire’s perfect society and provided insight into how he would have preferred society in Europe to be structured. Even though efforts to reform the Church were brought forward through Calvinism and the Council of Trent, Voltaire shows disdain for the major principles of organized religion in the 18th century. Although, like the Council of Trent, John Calvin’s beliefs carried the principle that all is for the best, which did align with Voltaire’s criticisms by pointing out that the Church should serve society rather than hold themselves in a dignified higher place and criticized the strict adherence to sacraments and Christian ritual.
https://www.armstrong.edu/history-journa...in-candide
and this quote:
The influential figure of Voltaire, spread deistic notions of to a wide audience. "After the French Revolution and its outbursts of atheism, Voltaire was widely condemned as one of the causes", wrote Blainey, "Nonetheless, his writings did concede that fear of God was an essential policeman in a disorderly world: 'If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him', wrote Voltaire".[64] Voltaire wrote this in response to Treatise of the Three Impostors, a document (most likely) authored by John Toland that denied all three Abrahamic religions.[65]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism
my number of 3.5 % is based off the number of people who lived 100 years approx after voltare's death he died 1778 so in 1878 there were approx 1.6 billion people on the planet 3.2 million were non religious 3.1 agnostic 225,000 are God haters. that's 7.5 million out of 1.6 billion is about 3.5% if you also take out the unevanglized/people who never heard of God which was estimated to be 53% or 880,000,000 back then. which leaves us with 720,000,000 and you guys with 7.5 million. which is honestly 1.5% (i honestly did the math guesstimate based on christian to atheist not world population forgive me for rushing you answer out.)
https://www.gordonconwell.edu/center-for...y-2020.pdf
again voltare was an atheist his own quotes and stance against the church proove that see some of the other quotes i posted.
2 there is an atheist movement educate your self fool before you speak. there is even a national convention every year:
https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheist_movement
3 it is a museum but it is also the head quarters of the Geneva bible society world head quarters.
https://www.scribd.com/document/33127426...le-society
You can have contempt for organized religion without being an atheist, Drich. The definition of atheist is not 'someone who has contempt for religion'.
That Voltaire's house was ever the headquarters of the Geneva Bible Society is a myth if not a 'pious fraud'.
Your source says 226,000 were atheists in 1900. Out of 1.6 billion that would be 0.14%. The definition of atheist is not 'someone who is not religious'.
And he goes straight to Conservapedia for his claim that there is an Atheist Movement. I should get a prize for predicting that. The convention is American Atheists, an organization founded by Madelyn Murray O'Hair in 1963. It has a membership of about 3,500; out of at least a million atheists in America (probably more like 25 million but I'd rather err on the conservative side). American Atheists is a club, not a movement.
(April 29, 2020 at 3:41 pm)Drich Wrote: sorry sport i studied this guy. he was mockingly a deist because he did not have the balls to wear the social stigma that came with being labeled an atheist back then. one could be ban from shops public services like police protection and even having been accused of dark magic. deism was the safest thing this guy could align himself with ans still carry out his attacks on god and the church as his 'nod to god' came in the way of a naturalism where he assigned the title to fit the engine that ran the natural world. IE god to him was not a deity but more of a source of power or energy. Plus on his death bed he refused God stating he at this point would not want to make any more enemies.s just you playing amature anthopologist
being apposed to God does. most of you are not atheist by definition either you all share more with voltare than you will ever admit in that you hate God, not that you do not believe in him. people who do not believe do not waist their time arguing for years over their same points. this is hatred that fuels this passion.
Whatever you want to call voltare he is the father of the movement now known as atheism.
Quote:Like other key Enlightenment thinkers, Voltaire was a deist.[128] He challenged orthodoxy by asking: "What is faith? Is it to believe that which is evident? No. It is perfectly evident to my mind that there exists a necessary, eternal, supreme, and intelligent being. This is no matter of faith, but of reason."[129][130]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaire#Religious_views
In a 1763 essay, Voltaire supported the toleration of other religions and ethnicities: "It does not require great art, or magnificently trained eloquence, to prove that Christians should tolerate each other. I, however, am going further: I say that we should regard all men as our brothers. What? The Turk my brother? The Chinaman my brother? The Jew? The Siam? Yes, without doubt; are we not all children of the same father and creatures of the same God?"[131]
In one of his many denunciations of priests of every religious sect, Voltaire describes them as those who "rise from an incestuous bed, manufacture a hundred versions of God, then eat and drink God, then piss and shit God."[132]
globb. that is not the proper 1763 quote.
The following is the proper quote:
It does not require great art, or magnificently trained eloquence, to prove that Christians should tolerate each other. I, however, am going further: I say that we should regard all men as our brothers. What? The Turk my brother? The Chinaman my brother? The Jew? The Siam? Yes, without doubt; are we not all children of the same father and creatures of the same God?
But these people despise us; they treat us as idolaters! Very well! I will tell them that they are grievously wrong. It seems to me that I would at least astonish the proud, dogmatic Islam imam or Buddhist priest, if I spoke to them as follows:
"This little globe, which is but a point, rolls through space, as do many other globes; we are lost in the immensity of the universe. Man, only five feet high, is assuredly only a small thing in creation. One of these imperceptible beings says to another one of his neighbors, in Arabia or South Africa: 'Listen to me, because God of all these worlds has enlightened me: there are nine hundred million little ants like us on the earth, but my ant-hole is the only one dear to God; all the other are cast off by Him for eternity; mine alone will be happy, and all the others will be eternally damned."
They would then interrupt me, and ask which fool blabbed all this nonsense. I would be obliged to answer, "You, yourselves." I would then endeavor to calm them, which would be very difficult.
The dude is making fun of Buddhist and Muslims. As everything i just quoted is his version of a over simplifies summary of what he thinks they believe, and when he serves it to them in this way, he mocks their preceived response.
This is what you 'good people' do all the time.
Not siding with them. here is a link to a legit copy of the 1763 tretis:
https://web.archive.org/web/200601070138...taire.html
Quote:https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/voltaire/#Ske
I do not need a commentator to think for me. i have spent time in the study of voltare which is why i can run through you guys like water through single ply toilet paper. I understand your foundations even if you do not.
Quote:3 it is a museum but it is also the head quarters of the Geneva bible society world head quarters.Disputed
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here sport.. this is a map from town town genva to the actual house:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Geneva,+...d46.207642
here is the recorded history of the house:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_D%C3%A9lices
here is a link to the bible society so you can scheduled a tour and buy a bible at their gift shop.
https://www.bible-society.org/
doesn't seem disputed to me, unless you mean to say it is shut down at this moment due to covid-19
You studied this guy so much that you know what he said was not what he meant, despite scholars and biographers of Voltaire disagreeing with you. Didn't study him as much as you, eh?
From the Wikipedia article you sourced:
In 1760, Voltaire left Les Délices for Ferney in France, and the house was then occupied by the Tronchin family. In the 1830s, when Colonel Henri Tronchin (1794–1865)[2][3] was a lay president of the recently founded Evangelical Society of Geneva,[4][5] Les Délices is reported to have been used as a repository for Bibles.[6] In view of Voltaire's skeptical attitude to Christianity and its Bible, this ironic report continues to be widely circulated and embellished by religious apologists.[7] Contrary to popular belief,[8][9] Les Délices has never been occupied by the current incarnation of the Geneva Bible Society, which was only founded in 1917.[10]
Italics mine.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.