(October 25, 2011 at 4:19 pm)ElDinero Wrote:(October 25, 2011 at 3:32 pm)salty Wrote: Concerning the OP: If there are choices, there is freewill. El Dinero brought up an example with sandwhiches, let's try that again.
A man lays out four sandwhiches, beef, chicken, turkey and ham. He tells you, "choose turkey." Do you still have freewill? You do, because the options are still available the sandwhiches are sitting right there in front of you. You don't have to listen to that man, he's simply trying to control you, based on what you know of him you will decide if you'll obey. You don't have to choose any of the sandwhiches, maybe you're not hungry. You will use your own judgement to choose what you want, that is the basis of freewill.
Ok, so I'm allowed to get drunk and have sex with everyone I want in heaven then, right? Since I don't have to listen to God trying to control me, as you said. But you already said I wouldn't be able to. Help me out.
Using the sandwhich example, you'll notice that the grounds for your freewill have already been established. By making that example you limited my options to sandwhices, I couldn't choose sex, I couldn't choose a boat ride or a pinball machine with the sandwhich example that you first created because it was not part of the framework for the analogy.
Heaven will have its own framework and have it's own established methods, like an RGP. If you call up a game designer and complain that the RPG isn't giving you freewill they'll tell you to take it back because when you purchased the game you agreed to its terms, if you don't like the terms then be done with it. Now think over an RPG, aren't you given thousands of options based on the games framework? Aren't you presented with hundreds of hours of game time and missions that are secret and known based on your ability to invest? Heaven will be like this, a place that presents thousands of options but by being admitted you have already agreed to the established framework and God tells us that drunkeness will not be in the framework.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:6