Applicability of Maths to the Universe

[GrandizerII]

Example, if there's symmetry involved in the real world, then the maths that makes use of symmetry will naturally be applicable to the real world.

I don't think anyone doubts that math has applicability to the material world. We could barely get through a day without it.

I know. I'm trying to point out that it shouldn't be a surprise at all in this scenario.

The controversy starts up when people say that math is always and only a description of the material. The metaphor that math is only a language to talk about the material appears to break down at some point.

How though? Would be good to have some specific examples. I forgot which clip it was (whether it was this one or another I watched), but Penrose mentions something about precision, but to me that doesn't really do much to support his POV. Because the other position explains this rather adequately.

And it's not only Platonists who say that numbers have a kind of independent existence, in a non-language kind of way. The number 2 exists in a way that the word "cat" doesn't, for example. That's what Popper, Penrose, and many others say is the case.

I might be inclined to agree. But again, unless there's something specific to go by here, I cannot say for sure.

In the end it's a metaphysical question, not a scientific one. People who are fully committed to a material-only kind of metaphysics will deny that there is anything else. Since I don't know the answer, and I take Popper and Penrose et.al. seriously, I have to keep an open mind on this.

At some point some specific examples are going to be required to challenge what may be referred to as the materialist perspective when it comes to mathematics. I'm keeping an open mind as well, but that doesn't mean I can't provisionally go with what is more reasonable to me. What is the problem with the materialist perspective when it comes to this topic? I'm not considering here consciousness or the mental world by the way. That may perhaps be a mystery (I can certainly understand how some people see it as such), but I don't see what is the mystery exactly regarding the applicability of mathematics to the physical/real world.