Is the universe God?

[Lek]

When I talk about the universe, I'm refering to any material thing that ever existed. Now try to wrap your brain around this. I think that we can all agree that either the universe always existed or it came into being at some time from the nothing that was already there. According to christians and many other theists God was not created. He always existed and has the power to create the universe. So either the universe always existed with no beginning or else it created itself, both of which require qualities of God.

[Kayenneh]

Does it matter? Even if it was so, the concept of a personal god, who is looking out for you, require that you live by a certain set of rules, condemns you to hell if you don't comply, still doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[Cato]

When I talk about the universe, I'm refering to any material thing that ever existed. Now try to wrap your brain around this. I think that we can all agree that either the universe always existed or it came into being at some time from the nothing that was already there. According to christians and many other theists God was not created. He always existed and has the power to create the universe. So either the universe always existed with no beginning or else it created itself, both of which require qualities of God.

Nonsense. Who makes the claim that the universe came from nothing?

Also, your claims regarding the characteristics of God are unsubstantiated.

[Nine]

Not sure how you made that jump..

[Alex K]

When I talk about the universe, I'm refering to any material thing that ever existed. Now try to wrap your brain around this. I think that we can all agree that either the universe always existed or it came into being at some time from the nothing that was already there.

Far from. What do you mean by "come into being" when there is no preexisting Universe in which a temporal process can take place?
The problem here is also, when you say the Universe has a beginning, you talk about time as measured by the timeline within the universe. This does not allow you to draw conclusions about the origin of the universe or time itself.

[FlyingNarwhal]

Ummmmmmmmmm.........no.

Alright lets eat!

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

Well, we do tend to say things like "the universe is against me" in a way analogous to "God hates me," but the universe itself has no consciousness or will of its own, so it doesn't seem to me it could qualify as a god at all, much less the capital G omnipotent God.

[Cyberman]

When I talk about the universe, I'm refering to any material thing that ever existed. Now try to wrap your brain around this. I think that we can all agree that either the universe always existed or it came into being at some time from the nothing that was already there.

Problem is, you need to demonstrate that our Universe meets the definition of the set of all material things ever to exist. Those two are not necessarily the same thing. We don't know and most likely can never know what gave rise to the initial conditions that gave rise to the Universe we all know and love.

According to christians and many other theists God was not created. He always existed and has the power to create the universe. So either the universe always existed with no beginning or else it created itself, both of which require qualities of God.

So, according to the least credible authorities on the matter, "God" can be defined as possessing qualities that cannot possibly be known with any degree of certainty or consensus. That alone makes your conclusion highly suspect.

[The Reality Salesman01]

When I talk about the universe, I'm refering to any material thing

Me too!

... that ever existed.

Can't speak to that. But I think I see what you're trying to say.

I think that we can all agree that either the universe always existed or it came into being at some time from the nothing that was already there.

I think it's important to be careful with words like "nothing" and "always" with regards to the universe. I think the universe, as we know it, had a finite beginning. But I don't have any clue what would constitute an absolute state of "nothingness". To me, that one is right there next to infinity. While it seems like everything within the universe follows the 3 part causal chain of having an Efficient Cause, a Material Cause, and the Formal Cause resulting in that which has now come to be from a pre-existing form...I can't say anything about the sum of all things (The Universe) necessarily being brought into being by the same process. I'm also not entirely sure about everything having a necessary Final Cause or purpose.

According to christians and many other theists God was not created. He always existed and has the power to create the universe.

And how do they know that is true? They don't. This is what is going on here:

You have this Universe that needs an explanation of its origin.

You don't have one.

So as a solution, you posit a being that created it, and decide that this agent is magically immune to the same things that troubled you about the universe...

Notice any problem with this?

By doing this, they have only succeeded in taking on an even more complicated series of questions that need answers that they do not have, and simply filling those gaps with God. Thereby ending any and all honest inquiry into understanding anything!

This is the effect of pretending to know things that one doesn't know.

So either the universe always existed with no beginning or else it created itself, both of which require qualities of God.

Qualities of God can be whatever the individual wants them to be. That's why its so fucking annoying! It's no different than randomly filling in numbers in the answer blocks of a math test. Sure, the questions all have answers in the boxes, but whether or not they're right didn't occur to matter to the individual scribbling them in at random. As for the universe, it exists. There was a point before (if before even makes sense) the universe as we know it did not exist. But, we have no clue about the state of things during that "time", nor do we have any knowledge of how that state was governed. Our understanding of physics is only even applicable to THIS universe, and that state in which we can observe it. To posit knowledge of anything beyond it is pretending to know things that one does not know. This is what separates us from the Theists. None of us know anything, but only some of us admit it. You don't have to take my word for it, just take a look at some of the active debates around here!

[Whateverist]

According to christians and many other theists God was not created. He always existed and has the power to create the universe.

And how do they know that is true? They don't. This is what is going on here:

You have this Universe that needs an explanation of its origin.

You don't have one.

So as a solution, you posit a being that created it, and decide that this agent is magically immune to the same things that troubled you about the universe...

Notice any problem with this?

By doing this, they have only succeeded in taking on an even more complicated series of questions that need answers that they do not have, and simply filling those gaps with God. Thereby ending any and all honest inquiry into understanding anything!

This is the effect of pretending to know things that one doesn't know.

^ This.

Origins, while a nice thing to know, is not necessary. It is something you might want but which we routinely do without. You can't always get that. But if you try some time (with the help of science) you just might find you get what you need.

http://youtu.be/j7leQB_Oe_k