Holy shit. I've never had a christian concede a point. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there may be hope for you yet Seeker. You may very well be the first christian who hasn't lied to us about actually "seeking the truth". Time will tell I suppose, but you've raised my hopes.
Ok let me give you an analogy of why it's not free will ...
Lets say a very wealthy man offered you a beautiful $10 million house free of charge, and he told you that all you have to do to accept this free gift was to be his friend and spend some time with him every week. However, he added, that if you don't accept this gift he would consider it an insult and arrange for you to be burnt with a blow torch every single day for the rest of your life - and there's nothing that the law could do to stop it. He than said, "hey, it's your choice. You can do whatever you want, but if you don't take the mansion and be my friend I am going to make you suffer for the remainder of your life" You see, that's not a choice is it. Neither is a child's "choice" to clean his room. Eventually that kid IS going to clean his room. As a parent you never meant it as a choice - it was a directive with a consequence. Just because you SAY it's free will doesn't mean it actually is. Make sense?
Your god does not offer you free will. It is an illusion, and a piss poor one at that.
Seeker, if you really want to learn about your religion, stop taking lessons from those who sell it and start studying real history. The truth behind Christianity is a twisted quagmire of superstition, deception, propaganda, torture and murder. Several of us use to be christians. I started researching to find out what was wrong with me and prove the "word of god" to be true. Ten years later, I found the evidence of fraud to be overwhelming and I tossed out christianity.
Here's the thing. If you "KNOW" that your god is real and that your religion happens to be "the one true religion" than researching REAL FACTUAL history from sources outside of the church will not be able to destroy your faith right? So do it. Delve in and let the chips fall where they may.
(October 26, 2011 at 9:29 pm)SeekerOfTruth Wrote:(October 26, 2011 at 8:20 pm)Cinjin Wrote: No the bible clearly does not teach that. If you don't choose to worship your god, you face eternal torment in a place he admittedly prepared for you. That is not free will by any stretch of the imagination.
How is it not free will? You have a choice in the matter free from God swaying you one way or the other. However, there is a consequence. There are consequences for every action we do whether the consequence is good or bad. I a parent says "clean your room or your grounded." their child still has the free will to decide to do it or not but being grounded is the consequence for choosing not to, just like not being grounded is the consequence for cleaning your room. Having free will has nothing to do with the outcome of the choice you make.
Ok let me give you an analogy of why it's not free will ...
Lets say a very wealthy man offered you a beautiful $10 million house free of charge, and he told you that all you have to do to accept this free gift was to be his friend and spend some time with him every week. However, he added, that if you don't accept this gift he would consider it an insult and arrange for you to be burnt with a blow torch every single day for the rest of your life - and there's nothing that the law could do to stop it. He than said, "hey, it's your choice. You can do whatever you want, but if you don't take the mansion and be my friend I am going to make you suffer for the remainder of your life" You see, that's not a choice is it. Neither is a child's "choice" to clean his room. Eventually that kid IS going to clean his room. As a parent you never meant it as a choice - it was a directive with a consequence. Just because you SAY it's free will doesn't mean it actually is. Make sense?
Your god does not offer you free will. It is an illusion, and a piss poor one at that.
Seeker, if you really want to learn about your religion, stop taking lessons from those who sell it and start studying real history. The truth behind Christianity is a twisted quagmire of superstition, deception, propaganda, torture and murder. Several of us use to be christians. I started researching to find out what was wrong with me and prove the "word of god" to be true. Ten years later, I found the evidence of fraud to be overwhelming and I tossed out christianity.
Here's the thing. If you "KNOW" that your god is real and that your religion happens to be "the one true religion" than researching REAL FACTUAL history from sources outside of the church will not be able to destroy your faith right? So do it. Delve in and let the chips fall where they may.
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