[Quranic Reflection]: The universe is expanding

[Deesse23]

This is so clearly the case that it boggles me that Winter rejects it (though it shouldn’t).

His reasons are simple (yet stupid, again) and he clearly stated them in some previous threads/posts:

#1 The Muslims defeated the "Roman empire"
In order to "make this claim come true", he has to define the Eastern Roman Empire aka Byzantium as the Roman Empire, period. Otherwise the achievements of the early muslims would be dimished.
His view, not mine.

#2 Ottomans as successors or Rome, thereby
He worships the Ottomans* (amongst others, like the Mamluks) and clearly stated that he views the Ottoman empire as a succesion of the Roman empire, again, looking for historical/political legitimisation. This only works is the Byzantine Empire was the Roman empire.


Like usual: He has his (stupid) conclusions, and works backwards from there.


*by the way, in reference to the torture and cruelty insanity of a thread Atlass also created lately: It was the Ottomans who made it custom that future Sultans had to kill all their (even infant!) brothers and other male family members, in order to gain political legitimacy and power. They never bothered with clear rules of succession. The results can be seen all over modern Istanbul, namely those small, cute coffins of all the murdered young brothers of Sultans.  
Oh, and since spilling blood was so barbaric and unworthy of such high ranking nobles, they were usually, just like Viziers fallen from grace, strangeled with silk ties (which was coincidentally a similar practice of the Mongols who Atlass, in his distorted black-and-white-view of the world hates so much and despises as barbarians the oh-so-civilized Muslims defeated to save the world    ).

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Rome, like The West™ has no particular factual or historic meaning to Winter.  They're stand-ins for satan.

I wouldnt go that far, for Rome for example. I dont recall him trash talking Rome. But he views those entities as mere pawns, acessories in the wider context of the rise and rule of Islam, which is his primary (and probably only) focus. Thats why its irrelevant to him if his definition and other *pesky details* about his views on Rome, Byzanium or "The West" are factually wrong. Its irrelevant, because the relevant parts is: Islam.

Completely self centered, intellectually uncurious and dishonest.

It made the empire, then broke it.

Pretty quickly, yes. Islam split faster than many other religions, into Sunni and Shia. A mere 50y after the death of The Prophet the first schism has happened and the first Caliphate (Rashidun) was gone.

 There was nothing more radical about islam than it's assumption of natural philosophy.  Magic book told it's followers that none of the ridiculous shit other religions were selling was true.  That god did things and made things pretty much as we see them.  That there were no god-men.  A demystification of the cosmos in relation to previous beliefs.

Agreed, it paved the way to many scientific observations and discoveries, yet also was the root cause of many an evil.