RE: What makes people irrational thinkers?
December 16, 2021 at 3:12 pm
(This post was last modified: December 16, 2021 at 3:24 pm by Simon Moon.)
(December 16, 2021 at 6:38 am)Belacqua Wrote:(December 15, 2021 at 4:48 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: What evidence, that is verifiable, demonstrable and falsifiable, have theists ever offered in support of the existence of a god?
I don't think that metaphysical issues can be settled by such evidence, by definition. You're talking science, but metaphysics is different.
So, again I ask, what method should we use for these metaphysical issues that can reliably tell fact from fiction? After all, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc, all seem to have their share of 'advanced thinkers', that rely on metaphysical methods for their god beliefs, yet, they all come up with drastically differing and mutually exclusive conclusions. Yet, a Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu scientist could all, say, measure the speed of light, and come up with the exact same results.
If a metaphysical method is unable to come up with reliable results for the existence a god, whos fault is that? So, a god lets us discover the single most reliable method for discovering truths and facts about reality, yet this same god hides his existence from those methods.
So, either this god is playing the longest game of hide and seek in history, or it doesn't exist. How would we go about telling the difference between a god that is hiding his existence from reliable methods of discovery, and one that does not exist?
Quote:All they seem to do, is point their specific ancient texts, personal testimony, hearsay, and fallacious philosophical arguments.
Quote:Personal testimony can be very persuasive.
Metaphysics only works through philosophical arguments, and if you've judged that all theological arguments are fallacious then it's reasonable for you to reject them.
Only to those with poor standards of evidence.
First of all, it has been demonstrated so often at this point, it shouldn't even have to be mentioned, just how unreliable our memories are, and how easily we can be fooled.
Do you think that every person with personal tetimony, despite their sincere beliefs that they have had an experience with a god, actually has had one? Are there some percentage of them, that: misinterpreted a natural phenomena, had an unusual but natural change in mental state, been fooled by a conman, etc, that caused them to believe they had an experience with a god?
How do we tell the difference between a person whose testimony of their experience with a god was actually a personal experience with a god, or a person that had a natural experience that they misinterpreted as an experience with a god?
Are you persuaded by the personal testimony for: alien abductions, bigfoot, ghosts, telekinesis, etc?
Quote:Metaphysics only works through philosophical arguments, and if you've judged that all theological arguments are fallacious then it's reasonable for you to reject them.
The thing is, it can be demonstrated, pretty easily, that they are indeed fallacious.
Let me add, that if these philosophical arguments are persuasive, why are so many philosophers atheists?
This survey shows only 16.4% of philosophers lean toward theism -
Philosopher Survery
Another study with similar numbers-
Another Study
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.