RE: Rhythm
--If you read my OP carefully, you will see that this thread was not created in order to interject any claims. This thread was created to ask a question and attain insights as to a possible solution. The question I posed is:
How can our brains function to create such vivid and memorable "hallucinations," in cases where there is absolutely no brain activity? (--such as it is deemed in cardiac arrest cases) (I also explained later how the theory that they are dreaming/hallucinating has faults)
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RE: Epimethean
They expressed that they had awareness of being dead. I agree this is surprising. But there are faults in the assertion that they were simply dreaming. Dreams cause electrical activity in the brain. Cardiac arrest patients have no electrical activity in the brain. Thus they cannot be dreaming. Please read the last half of post #32 for more information regarding that statement.
If I am wrong in this statement in some way or if you have a better explanation than the assertion that they are dreaming, I am more than eager to hear it.
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RE: Milky Tea
The problem with the hallucinations theory is that hallucinations cause electrical activity in the brain. Cardiac arrest patients have no electrical activity in the brain. Thus they cannot be hallucinating in having these experiences. Please read the last half of post #32 for more information regarding that statement.
If I am wrong in this statement in some way or if you have a better explanation than the assertion that they are hallucinating, I am more than eager to hear it.
In my post #41, I explained that, out of all the individuals they studied, only "(72%) were religious." Yet they all had very similar experiences (--some of which I described in posts #32 and #14).
Additionally, the NDErs results unite with respect to the impact that the NDE has on those experiencers.
That they all had a similar experience (or “dream” or hallucination, if you insist)—regardless of "medical, pharmacological, or psychological factors"-- is yet intriguing in itself.
With respect to the NDE's impact on their lives, it is furthermore intriguing that—regardless of "medical, pharmacological, or psychological factors"--their NDEs statistically significantly led them all more towards those ideals and virtues that have already been promoted by Christian doctrine for centuries.
(--Despite however weakly many Christians actually live up to those.)
Please check out post #41 for my extended discussion on that.
Regressing back to your quote: A significant amount (28%) of the individuals were non-religious. Yet they all had a similar experience, and the experience had a similar impact on them all.
(November 22, 2011 at 9:56 am)Rhythm Wrote: I'm sorry, but this claim isn't worth the time it would take to completely and utterl debunk.
--If you read my OP carefully, you will see that this thread was not created in order to interject any claims. This thread was created to ask a question and attain insights as to a possible solution. The question I posed is:
How can our brains function to create such vivid and memorable "hallucinations," in cases where there is absolutely no brain activity? (--such as it is deemed in cardiac arrest cases) (I also explained later how the theory that they are dreaming/hallucinating has faults)
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RE: Epimethean
(November 22, 2011 at 6:40 am)Epimethean Wrote: Not in any convincing way did you do so. Your contention remains scientifically absurd and, so, simply more religious mumbo-jumbo. 50% of patients listed "Awareness of being dead?" WTF? They weren't dead, or they would have had no such awareness. Dreams can be convincing, too, but they are not reality.
They expressed that they had awareness of being dead. I agree this is surprising. But there are faults in the assertion that they were simply dreaming. Dreams cause electrical activity in the brain. Cardiac arrest patients have no electrical activity in the brain. Thus they cannot be dreaming. Please read the last half of post #32 for more information regarding that statement.
If I am wrong in this statement in some way or if you have a better explanation than the assertion that they are dreaming, I am more than eager to hear it.
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RE: Milky Tea
(November 22, 2011 at 1:57 pm)Milky Tea Wrote: In most cases of reported NDE's the individual has suffering hypoxia and temporary or permanent brain damage which can cause the person to suffer hallucinations, and it's not unreasonable to expect that a brain under extreme physiological stress isn't going to be functioning property resulting in some odd experiences.
The problem with the hallucinations theory is that hallucinations cause electrical activity in the brain. Cardiac arrest patients have no electrical activity in the brain. Thus they cannot be hallucinating in having these experiences. Please read the last half of post #32 for more information regarding that statement.
If I am wrong in this statement in some way or if you have a better explanation than the assertion that they are hallucinating, I am more than eager to hear it.
(November 22, 2011 at 1:57 pm)Milky Tea Wrote: As for the common framing of experiences within a religious context this isn't entirely surprising as I suspect many of these people are religiously inclined anyway or if not have been subject to cultural influences which make the religious interpretation particularly likely.
In my post #41, I explained that, out of all the individuals they studied, only "(72%) were religious." Yet they all had very similar experiences (--some of which I described in posts #32 and #14).
Additionally, the NDErs results unite with respect to the impact that the NDE has on those experiencers.
That they all had a similar experience (or “dream” or hallucination, if you insist)—regardless of "medical, pharmacological, or psychological factors"-- is yet intriguing in itself.
With respect to the NDE's impact on their lives, it is furthermore intriguing that—regardless of "medical, pharmacological, or psychological factors"--their NDEs statistically significantly led them all more towards those ideals and virtues that have already been promoted by Christian doctrine for centuries.
(--Despite however weakly many Christians actually live up to those.)
Please check out post #41 for my extended discussion on that.
Regressing back to your quote: A significant amount (28%) of the individuals were non-religious. Yet they all had a similar experience, and the experience had a similar impact on them all.
"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." (1 Peter 3:15)
The "Test of Life" is not whether you can blindly "worship and praise God”. The test in life is whether or not you can live your life according to virtue, and live a life that reverberates waves of positive energy, building people up, as Jesus His son perfectly exemplified. We can choose lives of virtue as is God's will, or to choose lives of selfishness, arrogance, and other vices which have led to the plague of humanity we have found on earth. If people choose vice, that is their choice. Do not judge them (1 Corinthians 5:12 ). But He sent Jesus as a prime example of virtue so that we could see the light and choose it, instead of poisoning the earth with lives of darkness. Many, including even "Christians," have failed in this regard. But Christianity is supposed to be the message of love, hope, faith, unity, and virtue, that creates heaven on Earth.
The "Test of Life" is not whether you can blindly "worship and praise God”. The test in life is whether or not you can live your life according to virtue, and live a life that reverberates waves of positive energy, building people up, as Jesus His son perfectly exemplified. We can choose lives of virtue as is God's will, or to choose lives of selfishness, arrogance, and other vices which have led to the plague of humanity we have found on earth. If people choose vice, that is their choice. Do not judge them (1 Corinthians 5:12 ). But He sent Jesus as a prime example of virtue so that we could see the light and choose it, instead of poisoning the earth with lives of darkness. Many, including even "Christians," have failed in this regard. But Christianity is supposed to be the message of love, hope, faith, unity, and virtue, that creates heaven on Earth.
