Pyramid of Capitalism

[reverendjeremiah]

Rev, I've read the wiki page among others, this answered precisely none of my questions.

Void, I will be more than happy to answer your questions if I can. Please post the exact questions you wish for me to answer and I will try to answer them. I am NOT an expert in syndicalism...but I am patient and always willing to hear your point of view

You've got a contradiction here, you can't be advocating both a limited government and anarchism, the two are mutually exclusive.

I understand your misconception. It is a very common misconception. Allow me to give you a quick explanation of why your misconception is common.

This is the symbol of Anarchy:


The "A" = Anarchy. Anarchy is the opposition to LEADERSHIP. Anarchy means "without rulers". Nothing more, nothing less.
The "O" surrounding the anarchy = Order. Most people misconstrue anarchists as "chaos on the street" type people. This is merely demonization. In reality those people are miscreants in the most part, and sometimes are actual anarchists. It really depends on what the situation is.
Anarchists want a stateless and leaderless order.
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Allow me to also show you an example of another misconception

Now you tell me... do you agree with this image? I USED to. Now I know there is a bit of a difference between Classic Libertarians and Anarcho-capitalists.
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So, I havent really argued a "limited govt" per se, but more have argued that government and state be replaced by trade unions (which is the exact definition of "syndicalism", French for "Trade unionism")

As for your co-op, in principle there is no reason why a collective can't operate in a free market, people who chose to join a collective in exchange for agreeing to some terms would be acting entirely consistent with a free market - should they believe that participation in the collective is more beneficial than seeking their own opportunities in the market you should have no problem establishing one - There are a number of collectives that have a natural place in such an economy, like buying collectives, insurance cooperatives and the like - Unburdened by the requirements of the state people would be more free and more easily able to form such groups - I'd go so far as to argue that a free market would be the only truly ethical and consistent place for such syndicalism to form, the alternatives in other systems are all uprisings and seizing of property.

Exactly. Thats why I avoid using terms like "free market", since they arent very precise. free market does not require capitalism (or in this sense, "monetarism"), nor does it require communism. Free market can dwell under both and many other types of commerce, and can even cross communicate. Right libertarians and left libertarians can be neighbors, though there would be obvious tensions...our biggest commonality would be individual freedoms. Right libs would try to offer us their money. Chances are we might turn our nose up to it, depending on how you value them (left libs DISPISE most if not all artifical currency). It would more than likely be an exchange of commodities upon agreed values of the moment. In other words, barter would be the best method of transaction between left and right lib societies. We will shun credit and other capitalistic tricks and traps.

Rev, Libertarianism and Anarcho-capitalism are two distinct things, even in America. Someone who calls himself a libertarian and the says something about the abolition of the state is 'confused'. From the mainstream point of view I'm sure they think there is little to no difference between the two but there is really a fundamental ethical disagreement at the root of the divide, something that in turn yields to very different systems once extrapolated.

It's unfortunate that rioting/protest and anarchy have become synonyms to the public,

I think I clarified that in the image above which I said that I now know the difference. I merely pointed out the lacking of American thought on politics.

Rev, Stop avoiding the question PLEASE. It shouldn't be difficult to answer. I'll state it as clearly as possible:

Im not doing it on purpose. I am working 60 hours a week of hard physical labor (I have been running a jack hammer for the last 2 days, 10 hours per day...its quite exhausting)

1. Bob works for the cheese makers union producing cheese. Bob would like a guitar, a computer and a bag of weed.

You are asking me to predict an unpredictable market. That would be the same thing as me asking you to define all of the variables from a libertarian market and prove to me that it would be efficient.
...now..
These questions are good questions.
In an Anarcho-syndicalistic system, bob would go to what we call "The labor exchange" (the syndicates version of a market). Bob has quite a few wheels of cheese in his posession. He barters them for a guitar and a computer. Chances are that Bob's neighbor has some good shit growing in his back yard, and he will more than likely trade a few good slices of his product for a nice fat sack.

1. How does Bob go about obtaining these items given he has no medium of exchange? (please explain in detail)

He does have a medium of exchange. The medium is his PRODUCT.

His cheese



..you said so yourself. He is a member of the cheese makers union. WHAT? You think the union is going to take his cheese? No. they only ask for a percentage of it in the interest of the union itself.

2. How do the other unions decide what the contributions of the Cheese makers union are worth relative to their own products and whether or not the trade is fair?

Please remember that a union in syndicalism is the sum of its members. Please also remember that this is NOT an authoritarian community. Therefore the trade union is NOT the government of society. It is merely a collective of, in this instance, cheese makers. they vote up or down on what is best for the trade of cheese. Nothing more, nothing less. if they manage their cheese production poorly, then it may or may not reflect poorly on them.

3. What if the other unions do not need/want cheese, how does the cheese makers union go about exchanging their products for a guitar on Bob's behalf?

Every member of an electrical union will not want cheese? Every member of a steel workers union will not want cheese? Every member of every union do not want cheese?
Well, I promised to answer your questions. If every member of every union no longer wanted cheese, then I would suppose that cheese production would stop. Bob would have to find a new trade to get that guitar.

the nice thing is, in a syndicate, Bob would still probably get a few tokes of his neighbors weed (that is if he isnt growing it himself, which it would be legal in this sense), and his other computer geek neighbor would more than likely allow him some computer time to search out a new trade.

Syndicalism is about PRODUCTION. Not paper shufflers, money movers, and overseer foremans.

3. How do people know that bob isn't taking an unfair share of goods/services?

LOL, your number system went out the door long ago...LOL

Im not making fun of you...just laughing with you....your questions are good questions.
To answer your question I would say right off hand that he would have his "ticket" displayed publicly while he traded his wares. This would be known as a "dues receipt" showing his level of knowledge in the trade.

Now, if you are asking about wether people can tell if he is a thief or not.. then...well... thieves can be pretty slick cant they?

They can dwell in our current capitalistic society quite openly, and even wield tremendous power...look up BP, Shell, Enron, Aramco, etc...etc...