[Serious] That Trans Thread

[Irreligious Atheist]

For the record:

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I looked through the COVID-19 conspiracy threat to see what study you posted made me backtrack. I failed to figure out what you were talking about. And now that you've actually explained what the fuck you were talking about, I looked at the damn study and realised that it wasn't quite saying what you claimed it was. While an unvaccinated person is likely to fare better with their second case of COVID than a vaccinated person will on their first, the study still affirmed that someone who was both vaccinated and had a previous case will still do better than an unvaccinated person on their second case. And when the unvaccinated and vaccinated have their first case, the latter far and away does better. And I pointed this out multiple times (search the thread for "belt and braces" to see me do this), and you persisted in your misunderstanding of the case.

To recap: Vaccinated with Prior Case (Belt and Braces)>Unvaccinated with prior case>Vaccinated Without Prior Case>Unvaccinated without a prior case.

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And to get back to the subject at hand: Yes, I am fully aware that all the gender reassignment treatments we have can't transform a biological male into a perfect facsimile of a biological female. Literally nobody's arguing that this is the case. And sometimes there's going to be trans outliers who routinely kick asses of cis women, and seeing Fallon Fox go all Butch Coolidge on Tamika Brents is a good example of this. But, that said, the important thing is to figure out: are these examples the norm or are they just outliers? And, frankly, once a big meta-study on the subject looks at the subject and concludes "As long as they take their hormones (which tend to have side effects that actually negate many of the physical advantages they'd have in a vacuum, and hobble a few others "Harrison Bergeron"-style) and their T-blockers, their performance, is, on average, about par," there's a good reason sports leagues are starting to allow trans women to perform in women's sports. And it's not because of trans people bullying them into submission; it's because, once they keep their testosterone down, they tend to actually perform on par with cis female atheletes.

Yes, everything you just posted about natural immunity vs vaccination is exactly what I posted. My exact position, so we are in agreement. As you just admitted, unvaccinated with a prior case gives you better protection going forward than vaccination with no prior case. That was my entire point.

And back on topic, look at Lia Thomas competing on the men's team vs competing on the women's team. Was Lia Thomas pretty much the best in the world, and breaking records left and right when she was on the men's team? Nope. She did it competing against women though. If hormones magically make you pretty much indistinguishable from the opposite sex, then shouldn't Lia Thomas rank similarly in the women's division now as where she ranked in the men's division? Notice how things don't quite translate that way, and notice how transitioning can turn you into pretty much the best in the world, just like that. Funny how that works out when there's supposedly no real benefit according to the study you provided me. People like Sungala are simply kidding themselves when they say that science can't say anything about this one way or another. Why is Lia Thomas far more successful competing against women? There has to be a reason, and that reason is clearly biology. The science is not still up in the air on this issue. When it comes to the biological reality of the situation, things couldn't really be any more obvious. If you aren't confident that Lia Thomas would have been pretty much the best men's swimmer in the country at her age if she never transitioned and was still a man, then you can't say that there is no advantage to transitioning. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Lia Thomas would probably not have been the best in the country competing against men, so therefore, there is clearly a biological advantage here and it really is not disputable at all. And for all the mediocre trans women athletes you can point out, most of them probably wouldn't be in a sports league period if not for transitioning, so there's that.