Firstly, I don't claim religion as the source of morality in individuals; which your first clip assumes.
To the First video, the basis for his assumptions that Christ's sacrifice removes pesonal accountability is flawed. In fact it doesn't "disolve our obligation to live and witness in truth" it encourages that 1 John 3:18 comes to mind. Religion isn't about consolation or eschewing responsibility on a scapegoat it's about understanding God and our relationships with him and each other. Simply because Hitchens feels (and rightly so)that generally the religious pawn responsibility for the good and bad in their lives on God as a majority do, but that (unrightly) Jesus' sacrifice for all simply removes our sinful nature is incorrect. "What's that like to lie to children for a living?" .. wow the emotional appeal here is where it starts turnign into an anti-theist rant and I must confesss I started tuning it out.
Regardless of all this it doesn't make the religion immoral, just some (or on some points) most religious people basing their beliefs on immoral ideals. To invalidate the whole of the religion he should have used dogmatic and scriptural approach, to even get close to his target.
In response tothe sedcond video; it's not true that Jesus nullifies the punishment for our sins or the fact that we did sin, he advocates that the consequences or price of our life of sinful actions are already paid. Jesus was that propitiation, given by God, not the nullification. Punishing someone for a crime they didn't commit is obviously unjust. Sacrificing one for the many is just. It is further more touching and sacrificial when he did it knowingly and intentionally, but continued till the end with dignity instead of bitterness. What parent on here wouldn't step in front of a bullet or a car to save their kid? How is that immoral?
To your ezekiel verse the prohpet speaks the entire chapter of temporal rewardsand punishments not of eternal so I don't see where it's relevant to this discussion, ATT. It does easily show personal accountability though , so I'm not sure why you included it, as it's in opposition to the opinion of the first video and your view thusfar. Nor do I see the correlation to your Psalms verse that talks about rich people not being able to redeem/save any but yourself.
@rev- lol I love waterboy.
To the First video, the basis for his assumptions that Christ's sacrifice removes pesonal accountability is flawed. In fact it doesn't "disolve our obligation to live and witness in truth" it encourages that 1 John 3:18 comes to mind. Religion isn't about consolation or eschewing responsibility on a scapegoat it's about understanding God and our relationships with him and each other. Simply because Hitchens feels (and rightly so)that generally the religious pawn responsibility for the good and bad in their lives on God as a majority do, but that (unrightly) Jesus' sacrifice for all simply removes our sinful nature is incorrect. "What's that like to lie to children for a living?" .. wow the emotional appeal here is where it starts turnign into an anti-theist rant and I must confesss I started tuning it out.
Regardless of all this it doesn't make the religion immoral, just some (or on some points) most religious people basing their beliefs on immoral ideals. To invalidate the whole of the religion he should have used dogmatic and scriptural approach, to even get close to his target.
In response tothe sedcond video; it's not true that Jesus nullifies the punishment for our sins or the fact that we did sin, he advocates that the consequences or price of our life of sinful actions are already paid. Jesus was that propitiation, given by God, not the nullification. Punishing someone for a crime they didn't commit is obviously unjust. Sacrificing one for the many is just. It is further more touching and sacrificial when he did it knowingly and intentionally, but continued till the end with dignity instead of bitterness. What parent on here wouldn't step in front of a bullet or a car to save their kid? How is that immoral?
To your ezekiel verse the prohpet speaks the entire chapter of temporal rewardsand punishments not of eternal so I don't see where it's relevant to this discussion, ATT. It does easily show personal accountability though , so I'm not sure why you included it, as it's in opposition to the opinion of the first video and your view thusfar. Nor do I see the correlation to your Psalms verse that talks about rich people not being able to redeem/save any but yourself.
@rev- lol I love waterboy.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
