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Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II
#44
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II
(November 30, 2011 at 2:50 am)Rayaan Wrote:
(November 29, 2011 at 8:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Is your view however consistent with Quran. God has promised to be with and paradise for the "good people" (muhsineen). He loves the "good people". Right? But then he states those whom don't believe in Ayatallah (signs of God/guidance of God/revelation of God) will have painful punishment. He also promises disbelievers hell and states he hates them (see Suratal Fatir). The Quran also says "whom is more unjust then whom denies the truth when it comes to him" and other places "whom is more unjust then whom denies Ayatallah..."...and the most repeated thing in Quran is God promising hell for the disbelievers. If disbelievers can be good, then this would be injustice, because God would be punishing good people. Also it would be a contradiction because God says he doesn't love disbelievers but rather hates them in Quran, at the same time stating he loves the doers of good.

God does love the "doers of good" (muhsineen), but He loves them as long as their good deeds have a value or a connection to Him, which can exist only through faith (imaan).

In several verses in the Quran, it says that the good deeds of disbelievers are wiped away because they do not believe in God and hence there is no reward for their deeds. Therefore, atheists are not considered as muhsineen according to the Quranic verses because everyone's goodness is judged from a spiritual perspective. Faith is primary and good actions are secondary. So, if faith is not present in the first place, then all the good deeds will be nullified.

"Those who disbelieve and avert (men) from the way of Allah, He will render their actions fruitless." [47:1]

"And We will regard what they have done of deeds and make them as dust dispersed." [25:23]

"But those who disbelieved - their deeds are like a mirage in a lowland which a thirsty one thinks is water until, when he comes to it, he finds it is nothing but finds Allah before Him, and He will pay him in full his due; and Allah is swift in account." [24:39]

I do believe that atheists can be good at heart, by their actions and morality, but just not spiritual-wise.

Also, here's a good overview:
The Quran, the Believers and the Non-Believers (by Ahmad Shafaat)

The point is disbelievers (which includes people whom disbelieve in Islam, not just atheists) can't be considered good people per Quran.

You say you believe Atheists can be good at heart, but if they are good at heart, they are good people. Why would God not love people good at heart? Why nullify all their acts? Why torture them? The Quran doesn't deem disbelievers can be good at heart. It in fact states they have a disease in their hearts. Their hearts are sealed and dark. They are blind and deaf.

They are said to be reduced to the lowest of the low.

This includes people of the book, which suratal bayana says those whom disbelieve from them as well as the polytheists are the worse of creatures.

Again, if you believe disbelievers can be good people, as you should, I would suggest re-thinking if Islam is the right religion.

Also there is verses that state disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind...

Now look at these verses:

إِنَّ شَرَّ الدَّوَابِّ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ الصُّمُّ الْبُكْمُ الَّذِينَ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ {22}
[Shakir 8:22] Surely the vilest of animals, in Allah's sight, are the deaf, the dumb, who do not understand.
وَلَوْ عَلِمَ اللَّهُ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا لَأَسْمَعَهُمْ ۖ وَلَوْ أَسْمَعَهُمْ لَتَوَلَّوْا وَهُمْ مُعْرِضُونَ {23}
[Shakir 8:23] And if Allah had known any good in them He would have made them hear, and if He makes them hear they would turn back while they withdraw.

This verse is so strong, it's stating God doesn't know any good in them.

وَالَّذِينَ كَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِنَا صُمٌّ وَبُكْمٌ فِي الظُّلُمَاتِ ۗ مَنْ يَشَإِ اللَّهُ يُضْلِلْهُ وَمَنْ يَشَأْ يَجْعَلْهُ عَلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُسْتَقِيمٍ {39}
[Shakir 6:39] And they who reject Our communications are deaf and dumb, in utter darkness; whom Allah pleases He causes to err and whom He pleases He puts on the right way

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Messages In This Thread
Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by TheReal - November 29, 2011 at 10:16 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by thesummerqueen - November 29, 2011 at 10:18 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by TheReal - November 29, 2011 at 10:18 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by TheReal - November 29, 2011 at 10:20 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by DeistPaladin - November 29, 2011 at 10:37 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by thesummerqueen - November 29, 2011 at 10:20 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by thesummerqueen - November 29, 2011 at 10:25 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Rayaan - November 29, 2011 at 10:41 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Ace Otana - November 29, 2011 at 10:54 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by thesummerqueen - November 29, 2011 at 11:12 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Ace Otana - November 29, 2011 at 11:24 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Heather - November 29, 2011 at 11:31 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Ace Otana - November 29, 2011 at 11:42 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by 5thHorseman - November 29, 2011 at 11:32 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by thesummerqueen - November 29, 2011 at 11:33 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by thesummerqueen - November 29, 2011 at 11:47 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by thesummerqueen - November 29, 2011 at 12:26 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Rayaan - November 29, 2011 at 1:04 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by MysticKnight - November 29, 2011 at 8:50 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Ace Otana - November 29, 2011 at 1:54 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Rayaan - November 29, 2011 at 1:11 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by DeistPaladin - November 29, 2011 at 8:27 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Epimethean - November 30, 2011 at 2:20 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by DeistPaladin - November 30, 2011 at 9:27 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Rayaan - November 30, 2011 at 2:50 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by MysticKnight - November 30, 2011 at 3:17 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Heather - November 30, 2011 at 9:16 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by thesummerqueen - November 30, 2011 at 10:13 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Welsh cake - November 30, 2011 at 12:00 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by LastPoet - November 30, 2011 at 1:25 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Rayaan - November 30, 2011 at 3:46 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by MysticKnight - November 30, 2011 at 3:56 pm
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Rayaan - December 1, 2011 at 1:05 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by ElDinero - December 1, 2011 at 3:08 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by Rayaan - December 1, 2011 at 4:11 am
RE: Why Atheism/Secular Humanism... Part II - by ElDinero - December 1, 2011 at 4:22 am

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