Humanism

[shadow]

So I was touring all sort of museums and cathedrals during a visit to Rome and the Vatican on the weekend, exploring the history of the renaissance. While I find it difficult to relate fully to the religious buildings there, as fascinating as I find them, I did find the concept of humanism interesting.

Doing a bit more research on this back home, I realize that this actually what my beliefs are much more than just a lack of belief in god. Because I don't "not believe in god" as a belief or some sort of moral principle. It's just one thing I don't believe in, which isn't really that important. But "the value and agency of human beings", as Wikipedia puts it, is something I DO very much believe in. I don't passively not believe in a god; I actively want humans to answer their own prayers.

So I'm very happy to have found a new label that doesn't make it sound like I just don't care. Because I do care... just not about god.

[robvalue]

Indeed.

Atheism isn't about caring or not caring, it's a state of mind regarding a factual question. It's not concerned with what value "God" might or might not have.

Of course, anyone who places God's opinions or desires higher than those of humans isn't going to be a very good humanist. It's a dangerous mode of thought. But any particular theist may not do that. For example, they may believe in God but find it irrelevant. This would be my stance, if I were a theist. I'd still be a humanist (or more accurately a human-and-other-animals-ist).

[shadow]

Indeed.

Atheism isn't about caring or not caring, it's a state of mind regarding a factual question. It's not concerned with what value "God" might or might not have.

Yes, I just don't like how religious people's religious views imply an ideology and moral belief, but atheism doesn't. To be a Christian means "I have a moral code and idology that is guided by the Bible". To be an atheist means "I don't have a moral code and ideology that is guided by a mythical book", not "I have a moral code and ideology that just isn't guided by the Bible or other mythical books". Of course being an atheist doesn't negate the latter, but it just doesn't affirm it.

It's a distinction that's always bothered me. If society is going to use religion as a litmus test of morality, culture, and worldview, not thinking there is a god doesn't accurately represent my position.

[robvalue]

Atheism should be more properly compared with theism, though. Theism doesn't imply any sort of philosophy either, further than God belief.

Humanism could be compared to Christianity as fair game.

To make this clearer, there are some some religious atheists (such as Buddhists) who have their "moral philosophy" based on spiritual magical nonsense. So atheism doesn't tell you anything about the person's philosophy.

[Aegon]

I would certainly consider myself humanist as well. Almost every single thing that happens, ever, is because of the actions of other humans (but people tend to give credit to god or fate). We are all interconnected by the way we act and how we treat one another. Sort of the butterfly effect I guess? We're all capable of more than we think as well.

[shadow]

Atheism should be more properly compared with theism, though. Theism doesn't imply any sort of philosophy either, further than God belief.

Humanism could be compared to Christianity as fair game.

To make this clearer, there are some some religious atheists (such as Buddhists) who have their "moral philosophy" based on spiritual magical nonsense. So atheism doesn't tell you anything about the person's philosophy.

But, practically speaking, people use religion very commonly as a measure of philosophy. It's rarely an academic, yes or no question of whether or not someone believes in a non-specific deity.

I wish it were that way, but religion has evolve to streamline and simplify morality for the masses (largely under fear of hellfire). While we're moving away from that as a society, the association of religion with the presence of moral belief is still very present in day-to-day situations.

[Angrboda]

To me, humanism just seems like yet another religion. I'm all for the concept that value, for us, is necessarily human-centric, I'm just not sure that I'd elevate it to an absolute.

[KittyAnn]

Indeed.

Atheism isn't about caring or not caring, it's a state of mind regarding a factual question. It's not concerned with what value "God" might or might not have.

Yes, I just don't like how religious people's religious views imply an ideology and moral belief, but atheism doesn't. To be a Christian means "I have a moral code and idology that is guided by the Bible". To be an atheist means "I don't have a moral code and ideology that is guided by a mythical book", not "I have a moral code and ideology that just isn't guided by the Bible or other mythical books". Of course being an atheist doesn't negate the latter, but it just doesn't affirm it.

It's a distinction that's always bothered me. If society is going to use religion as a litmus test of morality, culture, and worldview, not thinking there is a god doesn't accurately represent my position.

Yes, I agree more or less with you... I'm a believer and as you say somehow the Bible directs my morality...but I'm also a thinking person and I can't deny that a person who doesn't believe in God is inherently evil and not moral..it's stupid! Somehow, because, according to my faith, we are all created in the image and likeness of God, so we are all good by nature.. and whether we act morally or not isn't a condition anymore - I believe or not.
Of course, always an ideology of extremism can lead us to wrong or not moral behavior ... even if we talk about religion ... But if I'm a believer or an atheist ...it certainly doesn't divide us into those who for some reason have or have no moral code..
we're only people ... better or worse ... but still thinking beings!

[shadow]

I would certainly consider myself humanist as well. Almost every single thing that happens,  ever, is because of the actions of other humans (but people tend to give credit to god or fate). We are all interconnected by the way we act and how we treat one another. Sort of the butterfly effect I guess? We're all capable of more than we think as well.

Especially the goods things. When you look at how far we've come since the beginning of civilization... that's us, not god reading our thoughts, not chance, not some spirit satisfied by our offerings.

And when you look at how we're going to solve the kinds of problems still present in the modern day... that's us as well. Not thoughts and prayers, but actual action. And I'm so ready to take that on, not because I'm trying to earn my way into heaven or escape hell, but because I genuinely believe in humanity: the well-being of our species and our planet.

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To me, humanism just seems like yet another religion.  I'm all for the concept that value, for us, is necessarily human-centric, I'm just not sure that I'd elevate it to an absolute.

Fair. So what kind of ideals do you work towards?

[Angrboda]

To me, humanism just seems like yet another religion.  I'm all for the concept that value, for us, is necessarily human-centric, I'm just not sure that I'd elevate it to an absolute.

Fair. So what kind of ideals do you work towards?

I tend to be wary of ideals. They're often just the stick which evolution uses to goad you into doing stuff. I believe in virtue and morality, but again see these as largely evolved drives, but in Kantian fashion, their reality in my head are too strong to ignore. At present I'm not working toward much of anything. I do like to think about interesting questions, and that seems to be the limit of my more earthly drives. That, and watching football.