(April 12, 2023 at 11:56 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:(April 12, 2023 at 11:45 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: As Lao-Tzu puts it “Where there is war the land ceases to be fertile, only thorns will grow in the land and weapons will ultimately return toward those who first used them”.
More than just words. Compacted earth is the perfect seedbed for invasive weeds (they prefer to think of themselves as pioneer species....). You can't stomp all over a field and expect it to grow fruit. Isn't it interesting that the fundamental deceit of abrahamism is that by stomping out all of the other cultivars, the field will be made most fertile for the growth of the good? Agrarian civilization requires peace, stability, and continuity of labor in order to be productive at scale. I see that you're still on about this magical Original Message of yours, that only you have access to, which is conveniently at odds with the actual progress of the actual religion of the actual magic books and actual cultures which held them to be so. Good luck with that.
You'll be the first thrown off the roof when they win. Internal dissent is more dangerous and more viciously handled in abrahamism than external agitation and malcontents. Ultimately, as a warlike and expansive faith, it needs the externals to struggle against, and has no use for the schismatics beyond a cautionary tale told after they're good and murdered, and told exclusively from the murderers POV.
Isn't it something that, when considering this, you feel like atheism is the best way forward today? The underlying proposition being that all religion must be like this religion. That, in order to prevent the historic evils of abrahamism, one must reject all religion. It's not, and there's no need. Abrahamism is a standout. It deserves credit for being as horrible as it's decided to be, and that took work, and there were always chances to go another way with it. Hell, dumb luck could have taken it another way, but the abrahamists genuinely rose to the occasion in this and every century and maintained the sickness of their faith. OFC..I think it may finally be showing it's age. As of today, abrahamism is being colonized from within by the remnants of the un-dead-ed dissenters. Turning into a new age faith, a synthesis of pre conquest belief and contemporary abrahamic shame.
All I said was that if you have limited time or interest, Atheism is probably the best solution for you. Because in our time, you will have to do some research in order to be able to get to some form of result. And I did not say that only I have the key to this. I said that if this “religion” that I understand as a kind of “inner reality” of “seventh continent” if you like, only you (as individual) can pack your stuff, prepare the expedition and start exploring it. This is not some sort of “blue pill or red pill” issue and then you follow the rules and rituals and then you get to paradise. In fast (just like in the Matrix movie) the Blue pill is usually only the beginning but I will come to that later.
The Tao-te-Ching starts with the phrase “The way that can be told of is not the Way” or “The Dao that can be told of is not the Dao” and then it says “It was from the nameless that Heaven and Earth sprang”. And in Chapter 14 it says “The eye gazes but it cannot catch a glimpse of it, The Ear listens but it cannot hear it, the hand grasps but it cannot seize it”.
This is a good definition of this Dao. The word God in Christianity means (in old German) the Greatest Good. Brahma in Hinduism (The God who is the source of all other Gods) means “He who is not”. I think the word Allah has also the same etymological meaning. And “Religion” (from the Latin word) means you are re-establishing that ling with this Dao or God or whatever you want to call it.
And What I want to say is that we are not a uniform mass of people. There are differences. And I don’t make this difference according to superficial issue like the name of their faith or the rituals they are performing. That’s because I believe that this “Higher Reality” has to be universal. The first phrase you need to repeat when joining the Islamic faith is “There is just one God (And Muhammad is his emissary)”. So this reality (if you happen to believe in it) is singular. Just like the fact that there is but one Universe in which we all live in and that this Universe is being ruled by the rules of mathematics and physics no matter who you are and how many people believe the opposite

So then there is my classification of those believers:
1) There is the mass of people who are exactly what you say they are: That is a mass of people, with unreal beliefs, who are obsessed with a body of beliefs and rituals, who are cleverly manipulated by a more limited number of people. Who wage “holy” wars, live in ignorance, deny science, logic, or philosophy. If you watched the movie “Agora” with Rachel Weisz that’s exactly what they are. The Quran calls them “Animal flock” (Ar.: Raiyah) I call tham “ignorant masses” or first chakra people with very low energies. Deeper Yogic trations also talk about them and say that these are the typical masses of the dark Ages (or Kali Yuga in their terminology). These are the Typical Kali-Yuga people and their strength is that they come upon you in masses. Like the Zombie hears of the “Walking Dead” series. And as I said, the Quran also knows about these masses and advises us to “Let go and let God”.
To sum up: The religion that is hated by most atheists “is not the Dao” It has nothing to do with it. The only benefit of such people is social acceptance within their social-group, + some sort of psychological relief on the issues of life-death and existence in general. That’s not my way.
2) There are what I call “true believers”. These are my grandparents for instance. They don’t intellectually analyze things too much. But they are being led by some honest religious figures. So their intellectual convictions are not entirely incorrect. And they are not fanatical about their beliefs either. And they have this devotion and/or sincerity in their practice so they are able to go a very long way. Because of this I never feel superior to such people. This is one of these seemingly contradictory fact that is related to the “Dao” or the “Way”.
And I am talking in spiritual terms. There are people who have the best spiritual teacher who make trips to Bhutan to meet some Indian Guru’s etc. but are completely egocentric and childish toward their existence and there are those people with limited education and limited knowledge who are able to be wise, and are able to avoid conflicts, find solutions for the good of everyone etc. And that’s what I am talking about.
3) And then there is the modern way. That’s the way of people like us who have huge access to information and are therefore able to go deeper into religious and spiritual subject. And because we both value science and logic as well of spiritual issues most people think we are nuts. But my view on that is that we are simply a product of the evolution of society. I think our intelligence (as a planet) is increasing, and therefore we are able to go beyond those two categories I mentioned before. And if you don’t like it that’s perfectly fine for me. İt is only the first category mentioned here who want to be as many as possible and take over the whole world if they can. That’s a typical ego-based attitude and its useless in spiritual term because as I said before, this journey is an individual journey. İt’s like you can get yourself 10 people to work-out in the gym for you all day long but if you don’t go there yourself, you won’t make any muscle. That’s the “new” approach. But it’s not really new either. That’s the way this approach has always been.

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