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Why atheism is a belief.
RE: Why atheism is a belief.
(December 14, 2011 at 6:40 pm)goodcake Wrote:
Quote:1: There is no evidence for a god or gods
This is irrelevant and does not prove or justify anything. This argument assumes its conclusion by saying you cannot disprove something which does not exist. Without providing a valid alternative (which you should have done in point 2), you're left stranded.
Actually, it removes everything that could possibly be explained by a god or gods. Given the lack of evidence, there is neither need to assert nor believe in such a being's existence.

(December 14, 2011 at 6:40 pm)goodcake Wrote:
Quote:2: Everything that is attributed to god or gods has other explanations that better describe the observable universe.

Everything? Try the creation of existence.

Is this where the atheist invokes a long string of gods from Norse, Greek, Jewish, Muslim faiths to discount any worldy event which can be accounted for scientifically. These elucidate nothing.

e.g As Thor has been proven to not create lightening, therefore no god exists.

What are these better explanations you speak of?
The difference is either saying "I dont' know why the universe is here" or "God did it."
Unfortunately for the latter explaination, that hypothosis is entirely made up and has no evidence-based backing (see #1).
However, there are other hypothosis that exist that are based on our current knowledge and theories in quantum mechanics that DO in fact, explain why our universe exists.
As such, there is more going for a non-religious explaination of the universe than ALL religious explainations.

(December 14, 2011 at 6:40 pm)goodcake Wrote:
Quote:3: The idea of god was obviously a primitive try at explaining the world by people ignorant of the facts. most of the first part of genesis is just a sort of 'just so' story,(google rudyard kipling if you dont know what these are).

Not at all. We just have different questions now. If you have answers please outline these. Just because some events which can be accounted for by not invoking a god, atheists seem to think this refutes a god.
The difference between atheists and theists is that atheists don't pretend to have answers that we don't. Theists fill in the blanks with made up explainations and go with it - often flogging scientific explainations along the way in order to keep their delusions viable - like the young-earth ideas from the religious communities versus the big bang theory. The former breaks all laws of physics and biology (among other sicences) while big bang fits in perfectly with everything we've observed to this point.
As such, atheists have not 'refuted' god so much as found no place for one nor found any reason for one to need to be. We don't believe in god because there is NO reason to believe in god - any god.

(December 14, 2011 at 6:40 pm)goodcake Wrote:
Quote:4: The idea of an after life is just wishfull thinking that has no scientific basis in fact.
So science and humanity can measure everything that is, and as it is? If you say yes you're deluded, if you say no, you have no basis for using "fact" as a basis for your position.
That sounds like an answer for someone who can't come up with anything qualitative to say about the matter.
There is no evidence for an afterlife. Period.
Therefore, there is no reason nor evidence to conclude that one exists at all. To believe otherwise is, as he said, wishful thinking.

(December 14, 2011 at 6:40 pm)goodcake Wrote:
Quote:5: There is no reason to think that anything 'supernatural' exists ouside of wishfull thinking or fear.
If you limit your entire life and views on what science can measure you will miss many things.
The thing about 'limiting' myself to science is that it's not a limit at all. It simply allows me to know where I stand and knowing where I stand is far, far superior to making up answers and believing in it really hard because those aren't really answers at all.
Religion has no answers or really anything that can be backed up by investigation of reality and there is no reason **AT ALL** to believe that god exists.
Therefore, one answer is entirely delusional (religion, god, faith) and one that is entirely based on what we can see and measure. (Science).
I'd rather limit my life on what we know rather than what we believe because the former is entirely delusional and made up.
The former is not. There is no comparison.

(December 14, 2011 at 6:40 pm)goodcake Wrote:
Quote:6: The ability of man to self delude is well documented.
Does this refute your position? or only everyone who disagrees with you?
You ARE amusing when you squirm to come up with an answer that you can't.

(December 14, 2011 at 6:40 pm)goodcake Wrote:
Quote:7: there are so many contradictory faiths. (my wife is a spiritualist whose beliefs are completely different to your beliefs but are just as real to her as yours are to you, so eiher you are wrong she is wrong or both of you are wrong, I vote for the latter).

You have your belief, which I think is wrong - we could debate that til the cows come home.

That there are many contradcitory faiths, doesn't lend itself to meaning yours is correct.
Atheists don't believe in god. That's the only thing that seporates us from everyone else - that we DON"T believe in something.
Stop trying to pigeonhole yourself into an arguement you cannot win in the precious time you have before getting banned once more.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925

Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
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Messages In This Thread
Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 6, 2011 at 5:23 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by 5thHorseman - December 6, 2011 at 5:32 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Rayaan - December 6, 2011 at 5:34 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 6, 2011 at 8:24 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Anomalocaris - December 6, 2011 at 5:35 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Ace Otana - December 6, 2011 at 5:38 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Cyberman - December 6, 2011 at 5:54 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Mister Agenda - December 6, 2011 at 6:03 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 6, 2011 at 6:07 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 6, 2011 at 10:16 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Jackalope - December 6, 2011 at 6:11 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 6, 2011 at 6:14 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Mister Agenda - December 6, 2011 at 6:14 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Erinome - December 6, 2011 at 6:36 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by xntubes - December 6, 2011 at 6:53 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Happy UnBeliever - December 6, 2011 at 7:05 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Jackalope - December 6, 2011 at 7:30 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Minimalist - December 6, 2011 at 8:36 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 6, 2011 at 10:26 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 6, 2011 at 10:29 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Norfolk And Chance - December 6, 2011 at 8:44 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 6, 2011 at 10:33 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by AthiestAtheist - December 6, 2011 at 10:42 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 6, 2011 at 10:45 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by AthiestAtheist - December 6, 2011 at 11:03 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 6, 2011 at 10:46 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 6, 2011 at 11:18 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by AthiestAtheist - December 6, 2011 at 11:30 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 6, 2011 at 11:38 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 7, 2011 at 12:00 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by kevinbenko - December 6, 2011 at 9:12 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Minimalist - December 6, 2011 at 9:25 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Norfolk And Chance - December 6, 2011 at 9:34 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Minimalist - December 6, 2011 at 10:23 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 6, 2011 at 10:29 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Cyberman - December 6, 2011 at 10:29 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by AthiestAtheist - December 6, 2011 at 10:31 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Cyberman - December 6, 2011 at 10:50 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Epimethean - December 6, 2011 at 11:40 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by AthiestAtheist - December 6, 2011 at 11:53 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Mister Agenda - December 7, 2011 at 1:22 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Ace Otana - December 7, 2011 at 8:35 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Heather - December 7, 2011 at 9:38 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 7, 2011 at 3:31 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Ace Otana - December 7, 2011 at 3:37 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 7, 2011 at 7:10 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 7, 2011 at 7:19 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Ace Otana - December 7, 2011 at 7:20 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 7, 2011 at 3:52 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 7, 2011 at 8:22 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 7, 2011 at 9:08 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 7, 2011 at 9:13 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 7, 2011 at 9:32 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 7, 2011 at 9:53 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 7, 2011 at 10:33 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Napoléon - December 7, 2011 at 9:49 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Mister Agenda - December 7, 2011 at 3:56 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Napoléon - December 7, 2011 at 4:02 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by AthiestAtheist - December 7, 2011 at 4:39 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Heather - December 7, 2011 at 3:56 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by 5thHorseman - December 7, 2011 at 3:59 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by 5thHorseman - December 7, 2011 at 7:12 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Epimethean - December 7, 2011 at 9:49 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Epimethean - December 7, 2011 at 10:18 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 7, 2011 at 10:28 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Epimethean - December 7, 2011 at 10:53 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by AthiestAtheist - December 7, 2011 at 11:51 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Napoléon - December 8, 2011 at 10:56 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Heather - December 8, 2011 at 12:57 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Napoléon - December 8, 2011 at 3:21 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Cinjin - December 8, 2011 at 4:14 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Cinjin - December 7, 2011 at 10:47 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 7, 2011 at 11:14 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Cinjin - December 8, 2011 at 3:11 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Epimethean - December 7, 2011 at 11:29 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 7, 2011 at 11:38 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 7, 2011 at 11:52 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 8, 2011 at 12:01 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 8, 2011 at 10:39 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Epimethean - December 8, 2011 at 12:02 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by downbeatplumb - December 8, 2011 at 2:51 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 8, 2011 at 3:04 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Erinome - December 8, 2011 at 10:49 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 8, 2011 at 11:00 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 8, 2011 at 11:14 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Shell B - December 8, 2011 at 11:24 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Erinome - December 8, 2011 at 11:14 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 8, 2011 at 11:22 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 8, 2011 at 11:32 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Mister Agenda - December 9, 2011 at 3:02 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Anomalocaris - December 9, 2011 at 3:09 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by JoopWoop - December 8, 2011 at 11:29 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Shell B - December 8, 2011 at 11:30 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Shell B - December 8, 2011 at 11:37 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 8, 2011 at 11:52 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Norfolk And Chance - December 10, 2011 at 2:47 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Shell B - December 8, 2011 at 11:56 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by LastPoet - December 9, 2011 at 4:56 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by houseofcantor - December 12, 2011 at 4:04 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Ace Otana - December 12, 2011 at 7:22 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by goodcake - December 14, 2011 at 5:02 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by downbeatplumb - December 14, 2011 at 5:23 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Napoléon - December 14, 2011 at 5:44 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by goodcake - December 14, 2011 at 6:40 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Napoléon - December 14, 2011 at 8:44 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Norfolk And Chance - December 14, 2011 at 9:11 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by downbeatplumb - December 15, 2011 at 1:30 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 16, 2011 at 4:04 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Norfolk And Chance - December 14, 2011 at 6:23 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by goodcake - December 14, 2011 at 9:07 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Mister Agenda - December 15, 2011 at 6:43 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by goodcake - December 17, 2011 at 12:02 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Jackalope - December 17, 2011 at 12:07 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Galileo - December 12, 2011 at 8:35 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Napoléon - December 12, 2011 at 11:16 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by houseofcantor - December 15, 2011 at 3:35 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Anomalocaris - December 15, 2011 at 3:58 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by houseofcantor - December 15, 2011 at 4:04 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by chatpilot - December 12, 2011 at 8:49 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Galileo - December 12, 2011 at 11:19 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by goodcake - December 14, 2011 at 9:00 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Norfolk And Chance - December 14, 2011 at 9:03 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by goodcake - December 14, 2011 at 9:47 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Blam! - December 14, 2011 at 10:09 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by goodcake - December 15, 2011 at 3:25 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Blam! - December 16, 2011 at 11:59 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Shell B - December 15, 2011 at 4:07 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by houseofcantor - December 15, 2011 at 4:14 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by houseofcantor - December 15, 2011 at 6:26 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by padraic - December 16, 2011 at 11:29 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Shell B - December 15, 2011 at 6:32 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by houseofcantor - December 15, 2011 at 10:45 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Whateverist - December 17, 2011 at 2:43 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by The Grand Nudger - December 17, 2011 at 2:47 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Whateverist - December 17, 2011 at 8:21 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Epimethean - December 17, 2011 at 10:15 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Mister Agenda - December 19, 2011 at 6:29 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by TheDarkestOfAngels - December 19, 2011 at 10:52 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Minimalist - December 19, 2011 at 6:36 pm
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Epimethean - December 20, 2011 at 11:27 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by campenney - January 6, 2012 at 2:43 am
RE: Why atheism is a belief. - by Doubting Thomas - January 6, 2012 at 2:20 pm

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