RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
September 16, 2023 at 1:26 pm
(This post was last modified: September 16, 2023 at 1:29 pm by Data.)
(September 16, 2023 at 12:47 pm)GrandizerII Wrote: Paul took Jesus to be a divine figure, albeit literally begotten. But even in Paul's writings, I'm not seeing any connection to Michael. You say Jesus = Michael with such confidence, as if it's obviously very true. Where are you getting this confidence from?
Why would you not respond to the post I made in response to your original doubt about the Michael subject? Seems odd to me. Anyway, what exactly does it mean that Paul took Jesus to be a divine figure. Elsewhere I referred to Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 8:5; 82:1, 6; John 10:34-35. So, a divine figure a god. Godlike, sons of god, etc. Correct?
Why am I confident?
1. Jesus existed in heaven before he came to earth. Proverbs 8:22; John 1:1,3, 14; 3:13; 8:23, 58; 17:5; Colossians 1:15-17; 1 John 2:13; Revelation 3:14 all speak of Jesus’ existence before the world began, in fact before anything was created Jesus was created. Before Heaven, the heavens, the Earth, and of course, man. He is the firstborn of creation, the beginning of creation, he came from somewhere other than this world, he descended from heaven. There can be no doubt that he had a pre-human existence in heaven before he came to Earth as the man Jesus Christ.
2. Jesus’ position in heaven before he came to the earth must have been an important one, considering he was the first of Jehovah’s creation and all things were created through him and for him. (Proverbs 8:22; John 1:3) That means not only the heavens and earth as we know them but the angels and heaven as well. Jesus is referred to as the "word of God," this means he is the spokesperson. (John 1:1) As the spokesperson for Jehovah God we can assume that when an angel performed some important task on earth, like guiding and protecting the early Israelites from Egypt or taking the physical form of men in performing an important task, it was likely Michael as he existed before he came to earth as Jesus.
3. The term archangel means chief of the angels. Arch means chief or principal. The term is only applied to one angel in the Bible. Michael. It is always used in the singular. There is only one archangel. The term archangel itself only appears twice throughout Scripture. At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 Paul writes of Jesus as having the voice of the archangel, and Jude 9 indicates Michael disputed with Satan over the body of Moses. So there is a connection with Jesus as well as an indication that Michael was connected in some way with the people of the exodus of Egypt.
4. Other than Jehovah God himself only two people in the Bible are said to be in charge of or over the angels. They are Michael and Jesus Christ. The name Michael appears only five times throughout Scripture. At Daniel 10:13, 21; 12:1; Jude 9 and Revelation 12:7.
Run that numbered bit through for plagiarism, Mr. Ball, while you're supposed to be working.