(July 25, 2024 at 3:28 pm)Lucian Wrote:(July 25, 2024 at 3:25 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Harm seems to reduce to instrumental utility, in which case, why isn't instrumental utility a measure of moral right and wrong. If it's not, it's hard to see what harm offers that utility doesn't.
Hey Angrboda. Sorry, being a dumb-dumb, what is instrumental utility. Not a concept I have come across before so figured I would ask what you mean rather than look it up and maybe misunderstand you
Also, general comment, not aimed at you - why do we keep focussing on immorality in the definitions… why no focus on what being morally good is, or is it just the absence of the bad? in many instances there is no harm to minimise when we do acts of good. Or am I misunderstanding
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Current time: July 27, 2025, 11:53 am
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Atheism and Ethics
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Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 5, 2024 at 1:06 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Mister Agenda - June 5, 2024 at 3:01 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 5, 2024 at 3:10 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 5, 2024 at 3:31 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 5, 2024 at 3:40 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 5, 2024 at 3:41 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 5, 2024 at 3:46 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - June 5, 2024 at 3:47 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 5, 2024 at 3:52 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by no one - June 5, 2024 at 5:22 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 5, 2024 at 5:25 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by no one - June 5, 2024 at 5:30 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 5, 2024 at 5:39 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Nay_Sayer - June 5, 2024 at 7:41 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by no one - June 5, 2024 at 9:29 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 5, 2024 at 10:18 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by no one - June 6, 2024 at 7:14 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 6, 2024 at 7:27 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by brewer - June 6, 2024 at 7:38 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 6, 2024 at 7:46 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by brewer - June 6, 2024 at 8:27 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 6, 2024 at 8:32 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by brewer - June 6, 2024 at 8:40 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by no one - June 6, 2024 at 8:33 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 6, 2024 at 8:34 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Nanny - June 7, 2024 at 9:28 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 7, 2024 at 9:29 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Mister Agenda - June 7, 2024 at 10:19 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 7, 2024 at 10:39 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Mister Agenda - June 10, 2024 at 11:46 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 11, 2024 at 7:44 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Mister Agenda - June 11, 2024 at 12:24 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 11, 2024 at 12:30 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 11, 2024 at 3:01 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 12, 2024 at 3:25 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2024 at 12:53 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 7, 2024 at 1:01 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - June 7, 2024 at 1:32 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 7, 2024 at 1:49 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2024 at 1:55 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 7, 2024 at 2:07 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2024 at 2:46 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 7, 2024 at 2:59 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2024 at 4:34 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 8, 2024 at 5:07 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 8, 2024 at 8:21 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 8, 2024 at 10:13 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 8, 2024 at 12:59 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 8, 2024 at 1:11 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Questor - June 8, 2024 at 7:25 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - June 8, 2024 at 8:02 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Questor - June 9, 2024 at 1:20 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2024 at 9:26 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 9, 2024 at 9:33 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 8, 2024 at 1:32 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 8, 2024 at 2:57 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Questor - June 8, 2024 at 7:39 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by brewer - June 9, 2024 at 7:01 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Silver - June 8, 2024 at 7:05 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 9, 2024 at 2:39 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2024 at 9:52 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Silver - June 9, 2024 at 2:46 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 9, 2024 at 3:03 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2024 at 9:20 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2024 at 9:44 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 9, 2024 at 9:53 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Silver - June 9, 2024 at 9:45 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2024 at 9:48 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Silver - June 9, 2024 at 10:11 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 9, 2024 at 11:20 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2024 at 10:21 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 9, 2024 at 4:54 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 10, 2024 at 5:03 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by brewer - June 9, 2024 at 10:53 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2024 at 11:20 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 10, 2024 at 11:46 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2024 at 12:08 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Mister Agenda - June 10, 2024 at 12:11 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2024 at 12:29 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 11, 2024 at 7:23 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Mister Agenda - June 11, 2024 at 12:33 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 11, 2024 at 12:43 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 16, 2024 at 3:10 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Thumpalumpacus - June 21, 2024 at 1:12 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 16, 2024 at 11:18 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 16, 2024 at 11:27 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Paleophyte - June 17, 2024 at 10:56 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 17, 2024 at 11:52 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Paleophyte - June 18, 2024 at 4:01 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 18, 2024 at 2:10 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Thumpalumpacus - June 21, 2024 at 1:27 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - June 18, 2024 at 2:19 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 18, 2024 at 2:26 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by h311inac311 - June 19, 2024 at 10:22 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 19, 2024 at 12:08 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Belacqua - June 19, 2024 at 7:14 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Paleophyte - June 20, 2024 at 2:38 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Belacqua - June 21, 2024 at 12:31 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Mister Agenda - June 20, 2024 at 11:40 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2024 at 2:42 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2024 at 2:19 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 22, 2024 at 3:24 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by h311inac311 - June 21, 2024 at 6:56 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - June 22, 2024 at 3:21 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - June 22, 2024 at 11:09 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Elek_the_Chthonaut - July 2, 2024 at 12:03 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 2, 2024 at 12:08 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 3, 2024 at 2:51 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 7, 2024 at 4:31 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 7, 2024 at 7:11 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 7, 2024 at 7:29 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 7, 2024 at 7:39 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 7, 2024 at 7:42 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 7, 2024 at 8:16 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 7, 2024 at 8:28 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 7, 2024 at 9:41 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 7, 2024 at 9:44 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 7, 2024 at 9:46 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 7, 2024 at 10:02 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 7, 2024 at 10:33 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 7, 2024 at 10:45 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 7, 2024 at 10:49 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 7, 2024 at 11:31 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 7, 2024 at 12:00 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 7, 2024 at 2:05 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Ahriman - July 8, 2024 at 8:50 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Thumpalumpacus - July 8, 2024 at 9:20 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 7, 2024 at 7:24 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 7, 2024 at 7:54 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 7, 2024 at 8:44 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 8, 2024 at 7:25 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 8, 2024 at 11:15 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Silver - July 8, 2024 at 8:51 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 8, 2024 at 11:33 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 8, 2024 at 12:09 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 8, 2024 at 2:10 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 8, 2024 at 2:17 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 8, 2024 at 2:39 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 8, 2024 at 11:57 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 8, 2024 at 1:31 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 8, 2024 at 12:14 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 8, 2024 at 1:57 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 8, 2024 at 2:01 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 8, 2024 at 2:29 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 8, 2024 at 2:00 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 9, 2024 at 2:37 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 9, 2024 at 2:44 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 9, 2024 at 2:46 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 9, 2024 at 2:50 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 9, 2024 at 2:51 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 9, 2024 at 2:52 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 9, 2024 at 2:54 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 9, 2024 at 2:59 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 9, 2024 at 3:00 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 9, 2024 at 3:09 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 9, 2024 at 6:34 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 9, 2024 at 4:26 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 9:40 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 10:03 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 11:13 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 11:45 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 12:44 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 12:51 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 17, 2024 at 2:02 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 6:10 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 17, 2024 at 6:42 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Ahriman - July 17, 2024 at 10:11 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 10:29 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Ahriman - July 17, 2024 at 11:30 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 11:33 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 17, 2024 at 1:59 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 12:01 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Ahriman - July 17, 2024 at 12:58 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 1:08 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 1:15 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 1:14 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 1:19 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 1:16 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 1:30 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 1:20 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 1:21 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 1:20 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 1:22 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 1:22 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 1:34 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 17, 2024 at 1:40 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 1:44 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 17, 2024 at 2:27 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 2:33 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 1:41 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 1:42 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 1:41 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 17, 2024 at 1:43 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 1:43 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Sheldon - July 17, 2024 at 2:14 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 2:18 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Ahriman - July 17, 2024 at 2:21 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 17, 2024 at 2:25 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 2:44 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Sheldon - July 17, 2024 at 4:50 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Ahriman - July 17, 2024 at 5:02 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 5:04 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Sheldon - July 17, 2024 at 6:03 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 6:24 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Sheldon - July 17, 2024 at 6:40 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 3:57 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Sheldon - July 18, 2024 at 5:31 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 1:01 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 2:25 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 2:28 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Ahriman - July 17, 2024 at 2:47 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 2:51 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 17, 2024 at 2:56 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 1:37 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 18, 2024 at 8:45 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 11:33 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 18, 2024 at 12:27 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 18, 2024 at 9:11 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Silver - July 18, 2024 at 9:14 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 18, 2024 at 2:01 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 2:30 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 18, 2024 at 4:53 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 18, 2024 at 2:32 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 2:43 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 18, 2024 at 2:44 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 7:32 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 19, 2024 at 7:11 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 19, 2024 at 11:08 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 25, 2024 at 8:27 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 25, 2024 at 12:33 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 25, 2024 at 2:29 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 25, 2024 at 2:36 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2024 at 4:58 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 26, 2024 at 4:59 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 26, 2024 at 2:15 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 27, 2024 at 2:45 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 27, 2024 at 10:20 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 27, 2024 at 11:46 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 27, 2024 at 11:47 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 27, 2024 at 7:54 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 25, 2024 at 3:25 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 25, 2024 at 3:28 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 25, 2024 at 3:32 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 25, 2024 at 3:32 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 25, 2024 at 5:34 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 27, 2024 at 7:55 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 25, 2024 at 5:21 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Sheldon - July 26, 2024 at 7:04 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 26, 2024 at 1:46 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 27, 2024 at 2:54 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Angrboda - July 27, 2024 at 7:44 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 27, 2024 at 12:37 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 28, 2024 at 2:21 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - July 27, 2024 at 8:07 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 28, 2024 at 4:27 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - August 1, 2024 at 10:00 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 11:14 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - August 1, 2024 at 12:05 pm
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2024 at 11:18 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by The Grand Nudger - July 28, 2024 at 4:22 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Lucian - July 28, 2024 at 4:30 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by no one - August 1, 2024 at 11:06 am
RE: Atheism and Ethics - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 9:51 am
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