Quote:If something is mind independent it exists even if no one is aware of it, it doesn’t require a mind for it to be real, such as the colour red does.
Colour is a bad example, since "it is a function of the human visual system, and is not an intrinsic property. Objects don't have a color, they give off light that appears to be a color. Spectral power distributions exist in the physical world, but color exists only in the mind of the beholder. Our perception of color is not an objective measure of anything about the light that enters our eyes, but it correlates pretty well with objective reality."
I agree that morality is subjective, I don't see how it can be otherwise. the best one can hope for is a broad consensus, but if we pick something almost everyone would eschew as evil, it would remain a subjective claim.
Quote:It doesn’t matter whether anyone things torture for the shits and giggles is wrong;it just is regardless of what people believe.I wonder if anyone thinks they can demonstrate objective evidence to support that idea? I must say I am dubious, but will keep an open mind. NB I think causing unnecessary suffering is wrong, I can even reason why, what I cannot do is demonstrate it is objectively true. I also think morality is relative as well as subjective, again I am happy to adjust my position if any objective evidence suggests otherwise.
It's worth noting that even if someone could demonstrate sufficient objective evidence that a deity exists, and that it had offered divine diktat on morality, these would remain subjective.
Quote:If everything resolves down to a question of harm grounding morality then it seems something important has been missed off.
Well for a start we would need to distinguish between necessary and unnecessary, a surgeon caused me harm, but it was to prevent a worse harm, no one I suspect would view those actions as immoral, suggesting again that morality is relative.
My apologies for the clumsy quoting, but I can't find a way to use the quote function just for selected text, and editing the whole post is frustratingly clumsy. hopefully I will become more adept at this, as the links to the original post are useful for clarity, while quoting small parts of it are useful for brevity.
