Atheism and Ethics

[Lucian]

If something is mind independent it exists even if no one is aware of it, it doesn’t require a mind for it to be real, such as the colour red does.

Colour is a bad example, since "it is a function of the human visual system, and is not an intrinsic property. Objects don't have a color, they give off light that appears to be a color. Spectral power distributions exist in the physical world, but color exists only in the mind of the beholder. Our perception of color is not an objective measure of anything about the light that enters our eyes, but it correlates pretty well with objective reality."

Sorry, communication of forums is not my strong point. I was saying that colour is not such an example of a mind-independent property, the bad comma placement gave the other reading. I was trying to say that I don’t believe all thing are mind independent but definitely see some things as in that category.

 I agree that morality is subjective, I don't see how it can be otherwise. the best one can hope for is a broad consensus, but if we pick something almost everyone would eschew as evil, it would remain a subjective claim.

glad we agree on that broad point

 My apologies for the clumsy quoting, but I can't find a way to use the quote function just for selected text, and editing the whole post is frustratingly clumsy. hopefully I will become more adept at this, as the links to the original post are useful for clarity, while quoting small parts of it are useful for brevity.

try opening two instances of the forum, one that you are editing the reply on and the other you can copy and paste from, then use this guide https://atheistforums.org/thread-3560.html Seems to work for me on a mobile device this morning