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The Kalam Cosmological Argument
#31
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument
(August 3, 2024 at 4:27 am)Sheldon Wrote: I missed out begins to exist, which of course is still not objectively demonstrated, since it is only true of things we have understood within the physical temporal universe, and in every single case they are natural causes, despite this Lane Craig's version then posits an unevidenced deity using supernatural magic, not only does this not follow from the first premise, it has no explanatory powers whatsoever. It also violates Occam's razor, involves question begging and what looks suspiciously like a special pleading fallacy.

I'm also skeptical of Craig's version, since it seems to involve a temporal chain of causation. The Aristotelian/Thomist version is about essential causation, so it's very different. 

In fact Thomas Aquinas considers the Kalam version and rejects it in about half a page. Of course it wasn't called "Kalam" then. That's Craig's idea. The basic argument comes from Christian theologian John Philoponus (490–570 AD), though it didn't catch on much among Christians. That's why Craig had to get it from later Muslim thinkers.
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Messages In This Thread
The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 1, 2024 at 2:48 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Ivan Denisovich - August 1, 2024 at 2:54 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 2, 2024 at 7:02 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Ivan Denisovich - August 2, 2024 at 10:31 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 4:35 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 1, 2024 at 5:17 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 5:55 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 8:57 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 2, 2024 at 7:05 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 2, 2024 at 7:13 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 2, 2024 at 7:28 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 2, 2024 at 7:38 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 2, 2024 at 7:50 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 2, 2024 at 8:10 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 2, 2024 at 11:22 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 2, 2024 at 11:58 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 3, 2024 at 7:11 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 3, 2024 at 7:37 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by brewer - August 3, 2024 at 7:44 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 7:54 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 3, 2024 at 9:44 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 4:49 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 3, 2024 at 5:16 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 6:45 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 3, 2024 at 6:53 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 7:02 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 3, 2024 at 7:32 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 7:49 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 3, 2024 at 7:54 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 8:00 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 8:02 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 8:02 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 8:13 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 8:13 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 2, 2024 at 8:38 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by brewer - August 2, 2024 at 10:20 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 2, 2024 at 10:22 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Mister Agenda - August 2, 2024 at 11:17 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 2, 2024 at 11:18 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2024 at 11:20 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 2, 2024 at 11:25 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Fake Messiah - August 2, 2024 at 2:29 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 6:39 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 2, 2024 at 6:56 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 3, 2024 at 4:27 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 3, 2024 at 4:34 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 3, 2024 at 8:15 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2024 at 1:37 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 3, 2024 at 1:38 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 3, 2024 at 1:41 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 8:54 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 4, 2024 at 12:21 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 4, 2024 at 6:34 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 6:38 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 4, 2024 at 6:56 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Ivan Denisovich - August 4, 2024 at 7:04 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 4, 2024 at 7:48 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Paleophyte - August 3, 2024 at 11:29 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 8:56 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 9:03 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 9:11 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 9:20 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 9:35 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 11:11 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 11:13 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 11:24 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 11:50 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 12:11 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 12:14 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 12:28 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Pat Mustard - August 6, 2024 at 3:07 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 12:29 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 12:34 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 12:35 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Silver - August 4, 2024 at 4:49 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 12:37 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 12:38 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 2:02 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 2:17 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 4, 2024 at 2:38 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 4, 2024 at 3:35 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 5:47 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Mister Agenda - August 6, 2024 at 3:39 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2024 at 3:45 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 4, 2024 at 6:36 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Paleophyte - August 5, 2024 at 4:44 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 5, 2024 at 7:27 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 5, 2024 at 9:14 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Sheldon - August 6, 2024 at 5:24 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 5, 2024 at 4:59 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2024 at 3:42 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Pat Mustard - August 7, 2024 at 1:38 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 7, 2024 at 2:34 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Paleophyte - August 8, 2024 at 5:23 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Mister Agenda - August 6, 2024 at 4:36 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 7, 2024 at 7:42 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by brewer - August 7, 2024 at 8:59 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 7, 2024 at 9:25 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2024 at 5:54 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Mister Agenda - August 7, 2024 at 3:23 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 7, 2024 at 11:26 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Ivan Denisovich - August 8, 2024 at 9:04 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 8, 2024 at 9:30 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2024 at 2:09 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Silver - August 7, 2024 at 2:20 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2024 at 2:59 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Thumpalumpacus - August 7, 2024 at 10:44 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by The Grand Nudger - August 8, 2024 at 2:57 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Disagreeable - August 8, 2024 at 9:09 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Ivan Denisovich - August 8, 2024 at 9:13 am
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Modern Atheism - August 25, 2024 at 7:48 pm
RE: The Kalam Cosmological Argument - by Belacqua - August 25, 2024 at 8:49 pm

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