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The Cosmological Proof
September 23, 2023 at 3:03 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2023 at 3:30 pm by LinuxGal.)
Believer: The things we see around us come into being as a result of the activity of other things. These other things are themselves the result of the activity of still other things. But this series cannot go back to infinity. Hence there must be a first member which is not itself caused by any preceding member, or in other words a first cause, which all men call God. This is the cosmological proof.
Atheist: Is the first cause all powerful, all good, and personal?
Believer: Of course! He's God!
Atheist: How does the cosmological proof necessitate an all-powerful, all good, and personal being to be the cause of the second cause?
Believer: I'll ask Fr. Bryan and get back to you on that.
Atheist: Does the first cause still exist?
Believer: Of course! God is eternal!
Atheist: How does the cosmological proof necessitate the continued existence of the first of the series of causes?
Believer: I"ll ask Fr. Bryan and get back to you on that.
Atheist: Is the First Cause singular?
Believer: If course! The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet they are not three gods but One God.
Atheist: How does the cosmological proof rule out the possibility of a plurality of first causes?
Believer: I'll ask Fr. Bryan and get back to you on that.
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RE: The Cosmological Proof
September 23, 2023 at 3:18 pm
Yeah so.....what's your point? Are you trying to prove that people who believe in God don't have all the answers? Well they don't, but neither does anyone else.
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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RE: The Cosmological Proof
September 23, 2023 at 3:24 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2023 at 3:26 pm by Foxaèr.)
The difference being that believers are claiming god is an answer with zero evidence to confirm it is a realistic answer.
It would be one thing entirely different if believers admitted to themselves and the rest of the world that they believed for the mere sake of personal comfort over the uncomfortable reality.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: The Cosmological Proof
September 23, 2023 at 3:29 pm
(September 23, 2023 at 3:18 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Yeah so.....what's your point? Are you trying to prove that people who believe in God don't have all the answers? Well they don't, but neither does anyone else.
No has to have all the answers to have some..or one..answer.
There is no god.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Cosmological Proof
September 23, 2023 at 3:36 pm
(September 23, 2023 at 3:18 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Yeah so.....what's your point? Are you trying to prove that people who believe in God don't have all the answers? Well they don't, but neither does anyone else.
The "proof" began with Plato and, thanks to a book published in 1979, it's still considered a strong argument today...by many deluded folks.
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RE: The Cosmological Proof
September 23, 2023 at 4:17 pm
(September 23, 2023 at 3:18 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Yeah so.....what's your point? Are you trying to prove that people who believe in God don't have all the answers? Well they don't, but neither does anyone else.
I have all the answers. Here they are:
‘Yellow.’
‘Yes, please.’
‘I wish to decline the collision damage waiver.’
Feel free to use them.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: The Cosmological Proof
September 23, 2023 at 4:25 pm
(September 23, 2023 at 3:18 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Yeah so.....what's your point? Are you trying to prove that people who believe in God don't have all the answers? Well they don't, but neither does anyone else.
Ah........but we can tell when an answer for 'the existence of god' is basically bullshit.
Just believe if you want, don't make up arguments in an attempt at validation.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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RE: The Cosmological Proof
September 23, 2023 at 4:33 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2023 at 4:33 pm by Belacqua.)
Believer: The things we see around us come into being as a result of the activity of other things. These other things are themselves the result of the activity of still other things. But this series cannot go back to infinity. Hence there must be a first member which is not itself caused by any preceding member, or in other words a first cause, which all men call God. This is the cosmological proof.
Atheist: Is the first cause all powerful, all good, and personal?
Believer: Of course! He's God!
Atheist: How does the cosmological proof necessitate an all-powerful, all good, and personal being to be the cause of the second cause?
Believer: It doesn't. It was never intended to prove that. You need different arguments for that.
Atheist: OK.
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RE: The Cosmological Proof
September 23, 2023 at 4:43 pm
(September 23, 2023 at 3:29 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: (September 23, 2023 at 3:18 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Yeah so.....what's your point? Are you trying to prove that people who believe in God don't have all the answers? Well they don't, but neither does anyone else.
No has to have all the answers to have some..or one..answer.
There is no god.
Sure there is. You can't justify its existence to yourself, but God is real, or as good as real.
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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RE: The Cosmological Proof
September 23, 2023 at 4:45 pm
Oh, the contradiction.
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