RE: Christianity; the World's Most Violently Persecuted Religion
December 14, 2024 at 7:53 am
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2024 at 7:59 am by Sheldon.)
(December 14, 2024 at 1:19 am)Belacqua Wrote:(December 13, 2024 at 9:52 am)Sheldon Wrote: I am a big dummy, or if one prefers a middling intellect, with a mediocre formal education. However he never actually addresses what I have said, and can't avoid sententious posturing and name dropping, without actually offering any depth or valid criticism.
1. Dropped Plato's name in, check.
2. Pointed out I knew fuck all about [philosophy, check.
3. Implying he does, check.
4. Never actually addressed any specifics, check.
It's beyond tedious now, and I no longer have the patience to indulge what has all the appearance of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
According to Plato, and many many Christians who were influenced by his thought, God takes no action and makes no decisions. I know this is different from the anthropomorphized version that many Christians describe, and that nearly all Internet Atheists argue against. However, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Dante, and many others, up through Spinoza and Hegel, agree with Plato on this.
That's why it doesn't make sense, to these people, to talk about God "deciding" to do things. That would apply to the normal image of Zeus, but not to the Christian God. Decisions involve options, choosing this or that. God is already perfect, actus purus, and therefore doesn't change at all, has nothing to decide, and doesn't have the option to become unperfect.
The usual follow-up to this is "but the Bible says God makes decisions!" and that's true. But the thinkers I've mentioned, unlike many Protestants and nearly all Internet Atheists, are not sola scriptura literalists, so they have no trouble building on an ancient conception of God which doesn't literally follow the Bible.
I suspect that there are a lot of Christians who believe in the kind of God you're arguing against. I think you'd be surprised, though, at how many Christians follow the thinking that God is simply the Good, the Ground of Being, the Prime Mover (who himself has never taken any action). So if you want to argue against the anthropomorphized version, that would be useful if anyone who believes in that is posting here. It still leaves you, however, with the God of the Philosophers to deal with.
And that has what to do with @TheWhiteMarten's claim, and my response? Do you even remember what he claimed, or what my original post responded with, and why? I do wish some people would read the post, and address what was actually said, instead of tilting at windmills they imagine have been offered.
Do you think the amount of culpability a being or entity has would increased, diminish or stay the same, as it's autonomy of choice increased? This is a pretty simple question, that addresses @TheWhiteMarten's original claim.