(May 2, 2025 at 6:57 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:(May 2, 2025 at 6:26 pm)Angrboda Wrote: We have trust in things that, after being granted an initial largesse, reward us by fulfilling our expectations. That's not how religious faith works. God doesn't come down and find your car keys for you. You believe that your expectations have been fulfilled based upon a feeling. But that feeling isn't necessarily caused by God. So you believe your trust has been fulfilled because you want to believe that your trust has been fulfilled. That's not at all trust in. That's essentially circular reasoning resting on your initial largesse of blind faith. That's similar to a stalker believing that their idol secretly loves them, that their idol has shown that they love them, even if it's not evident to anyone but the stalker.
I disagree, but perhaps not in a direct way. I can agree that trust has some kind of substance or result, maybe even a measurable outcome, from which we can look back and conclude if the trust was well-grounded. And Christian faith, broadly speaking, is concerned with specific outcomes such as salvation, forgiveness, eternal life, and the like. And so, when a Christian lives by faith, they're saying they trust God with their salvation essentially. These are more or less verifiable expectations: You'll either be saved or you won't be, you'll have eternal life, or you won't. So, I don't agree that the result of faith is a feeling, I think there is a substantive verifiable outcome.
And of course, whether you believe them or not, all the biblical stories of faith show this. Like Noah trusting God and building the ark when no rain had yet fallen. The story concludes with the flood, where we learn his faith was indeed well placed.
Not sure I agree 'finding out when you're dead' constitutes a 'verifiable outcome'.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
