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In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus
(May 10, 2025 at 5:14 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Here is where reading the right books can help. Dawkins and Hitchens, for example, conceived of God in the simplest, most childish way possible, and then (no surprise) decided that the God they had imagined didn't exist. But there are better books.

On page 31 of The God Delusion, Richard Dawkins wrote: "It is unfair to attack such an easy target [the Old Testament God].  The God Hypothesis should not stand or fall with its most unlovely instantiation."

He went on: "Instead I shall define the God Hypothesis more defensibly: there exists a super-human, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us.  This book will advocate an alternative view: any creative intelligence, of sufficient complexity to design anything, comes into existence only as the end product of an extended process of gradual evolution.  Creative intelligences, being evolved, necessarily arrive late in the universe, and therefore cannot be responsible for designing it.  God, in the sense defined, is a delusion; and, as later chapters will show, a pernicious delusion."

But I do agree that there are better books.  The best I found was God: The Failed Hypothesis by philosopher and physicist Victor Stenger.

(May 10, 2025 at 5:14 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Objective evidence, as we pointed out, is never some sort of pure and direct perception, but always facts that are interpreted in light of prior beliefs. Observations of the world are "theory laden."

So apparently you have an image or conception of what an omnipotent God would be like, and then you look for indications in the world of whether that God exists. And of course you find none. 

While it is true that I abandoned the Christian concept of a Trinity God when I was still a teenager, because I thought it clearly conflicted with the basic idea of monotheism, I spent over two decades trying to make the best possible sense of the Sufi interpretation of the Islamic idea of God, as the one and only absolute.  That made a great deal more sense to me, so it took me much longer to figure out what was wrong with it.

(May 10, 2025 at 5:14 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Then a question you could ask would be: is my conception of God the same as the one that intelligent Christians hold? When I look at the world and interpret it as lacking signs of God, am I looking for the right kind of thing? 

I think I examined all of the major ideas about God, and didn't find any of them which made sense in the end. Atheists have fairly clear arguments against all of them. (I started reading atheistic ideas only at the age of 50.)
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RE: In your opinion what causes christians to believe in Jesus - by Alan V - May 10, 2025 at 7:39 pm

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