RE: That Trans Thread
June 20, 2025 at 10:48 am
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2025 at 10:52 am by arewethereyet.)
(June 20, 2025 at 10:35 am)Sheldon Wrote:(June 20, 2025 at 7:38 am)Charlie Boy Wrote: The concern is that others are now obliged—by policy, law, or social pressure—to participate in those identifications regardless of their own reasoned beliefs.Cite one of those laws for me please, also a few of these "reasoned beliefs", that you think is a barrier to common civility and not deliberately insulting people.
Quote:Misgendering, even inadvertently, can cost someone their job.I am dubious, can you cite any such employment laws for me?
Quote:Children are being transitioned without full psychological assessment, while teachers and parents are sometimes legally or professionally penalised for raising doubts or suggesting caution.Again I am dubious, what does "being transitioned" entail in this claim exactly? Though of course even were there evidenced examples, this seems to have no relevance to granting transgender rights that I can see.
Quote:Freedom to identify oneself is one thing. Compelled affirmation by others, under threat of sanction, is quite another.
Well we already do this, anti-Semitic or racist remarks are sanctioned in various ways, as are openly sexist epithets, or hate speech against gay people for example, why do want to treat transgender people differently?
Quote:expressing biological facts is rebranded as “hate speech,”
That is another dubious assertion, since the biological sex at birth, must differ from gender identity or there would be nothing to discuss, it's more likely that people who deliberately use someone's biological sex at birth, to persecute someone whose psychological gender differs from this, is labelled hate speech. Again why would one do this, what would one hope to gain, why do you even care?
Quote:So, yes—gender self-identification may feel like liberation to some. But for many others, it arrives packaged with expectations, enforcement, and penalties.Like those poor racists who can no longer use openly racist words and expressions, or homophobic bigots, who can no longer use their religious beliefs to persecute and insult gay people, yes it must be torture for you to be told you can't indulge your prejudice with impunity.![]()
Quote:One person’s freedom cannot hinge on another’s compelled agreement.What a spectacularly stupid claim, we pass laws that do this all the time, and always have.
Quote:Would you care to revisit your claim with that in mind—or would you prefer to continue debating shadows of your own invention?
That is a massive irony overload, as you seem to be touting the usual straw man claims, while bleating that there is now yet another group of people who you are no longer free to openly indulge in bigotry and prejudice against, poor poor you...
I can only suggest you grow a pair, and accept that espousing hatred and bigotry is not a right, well not in any decent society anyway.
Sheldon, you’ve clearly arrived with gusto—but allow me to demonstrate why your confidence is rather... premature. Let’s unpack your “dubious” assertions with real-world evidence, shall we?
“Minimal psychological assessment? Provide laws and examples.”
The Cass Review—commissioned by NHS England—found the evidence for puberty blockers and social transition to be “poor” or “low quality”, lacking long-term follow-up, and cautioned that puberty blockers should no longer be routinely offered outside clinical trials
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One judge in the UK’s Re Devin case explicitly blocked puberty blockers for a 12-year-old, citing insufficient clinical consensus and irreversible risks
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“Employment law for misgendering?…”
In Lister v New College Swindon, maths teacher Kevin Lister was fired and lost an Employment Tribunal for refusing to use a trans pupil’s chosen name/pronouns—legally upheld as reasonable action in response to his refusal
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Another case saw a teacher disciplined and later reinstated after challenging aggressive pronoun policies—real-world consequences for refusing compelled affirmation
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“Irrelevance to rights?”
The Cass review isn’t hand-waving—it has already halted NHS prescriptions of puberty blockers outside clinical trials, spurred government action to regulate private clinics, and closed the Tavistock clinic amid policy reform
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This is not mere “identity politics”—it’s tangible policy and legal change.
In summary, the evidence is real: weakening clinical support, legal penalties, employment consequences.
You may cry “bigotry!” every time these realities are named—but that’s not discourse—it’s a shell game, shifting attention away from substance.
So yes, I’ve provided citations—links to actual tribunals and reviews. And yes, I have thoroughly dismantled your straw-man argument.