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Consciousness
#4
RE: Consciousness
(July 1, 2025 at 9:35 pm)Alan V Wrote: First, the word "radical" is apparently meaningless in this assertion.  Consciousness is not some separate substance.  It is an evolved brain function.

So if there is only one kind of substance, then is that substance conscious or non-conscious?

Quote:Second, the assertion "There can be no emergence" is contradicted by the evidence.

We only have evidence of the experiential.

Quote:For instance, life emerged from complex combinations of non-living matter.  None of the elements which make up our bodies are alive by themselves.

But life can be explained in terms of non living parts. But subjective experience can't be explained in terms of non-subjective experience. Life from non-life isn't radical in terms of its emergence. Consciousness from non-consciousness is radical.

Quote:Does that mean all non-living matter is really living?  No it obviously does not.

Again, we can explain life in terms of things that are not alive. But we can't explain consciousness in terms of things that are not conscious.

Quote:Consciousness emerges from life, not directly from non-living matter.  Non-living matter has no use for consciousness at all.

Life doesn't have a use for consciousness either. We could react as if we were in pain, for instance, without actually having to feel it.

Quote:Consciousness emerges from non-consciousness every time we wake from deep sleep, a coma, or an anesthetic.

The consciousness emerges from the brain which is consciousness-involving. And just because we don't remember being conscious isn't evidence that we weren't or aren't conscious.

(July 1, 2025 at 9:44 pm)Paleophyte Wrote:
(July 1, 2025 at 9:07 pm)Disagreeable Wrote: P1) Everything is physical
...
C4)  Therefore, Panpsychism is true

Your conclusion contradicts your premise; therefore, you've done something wrong.

That's not a contradiction. Under monism there is one kind of stuff and there is nothing stopping that stuff from being both physical and mental. Galen Strawson is an example of a panpsychist physicalist.
Schopenhauer Wrote:The intellect has become free, and in this state it does not even know or understand any other interest than that of truth.

Epicurus Wrote:The greatest reward of righteousness is peace of mind.

Epicurus Wrote:Don't fear god,
Don't worry about death;

What is good is easy to get,

What is terrible is easy to endure
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Consciousness - by Disagreeable - July 1, 2025 at 9:07 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 1, 2025 at 9:35 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Disagreeable - July 1, 2025 at 10:16 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 2, 2025 at 12:05 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 2, 2025 at 5:42 am
RE: Consciousness - by Disagreeable - July 6, 2025 at 1:47 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Deesse23 - July 6, 2025 at 2:15 pm
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 6, 2025 at 2:22 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 6, 2025 at 3:53 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Disagreeable - July 13, 2025 at 7:13 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 13, 2025 at 11:34 pm
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 14, 2025 at 2:45 am
RE: Consciousness - by AFTT47 - July 6, 2025 at 5:29 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 1, 2025 at 9:44 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Thumpalumpacus - July 2, 2025 at 12:05 am
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 1, 2025 at 10:17 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Angrboda - July 1, 2025 at 11:47 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Deesse23 - July 2, 2025 at 1:53 am
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 2, 2025 at 5:22 am
RE: Consciousness - by snowtracks - July 3, 2025 at 2:13 am
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 3, 2025 at 3:58 am
RE: Consciousness - by snowtracks - July 6, 2025 at 4:49 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 6, 2025 at 5:02 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 3, 2025 at 7:29 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 3, 2025 at 7:52 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 3, 2025 at 12:22 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 3, 2025 at 12:31 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Deesse23 - July 3, 2025 at 1:06 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 3, 2025 at 1:35 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ravenshire - July 4, 2025 at 4:00 am
RE: Consciousness - by Thumpalumpacus - July 3, 2025 at 1:02 pm
RE: Consciousness - by arewethereyet - July 3, 2025 at 1:05 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Thumpalumpacus - July 3, 2025 at 1:21 pm
RE: Consciousness - by arewethereyet - July 3, 2025 at 1:31 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Thumpalumpacus - July 3, 2025 at 2:46 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 3, 2025 at 2:53 pm
RE: Consciousness - by snowtracks - July 6, 2025 at 4:34 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 6, 2025 at 4:42 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 6, 2025 at 7:38 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 7, 2025 at 5:46 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 7, 2025 at 6:49 am
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 7, 2025 at 7:26 am
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 7, 2025 at 10:20 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 7, 2025 at 2:43 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 7, 2025 at 3:36 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 7, 2025 at 5:01 pm
RE: Consciousness - by snowtracks - July 12, 2025 at 8:21 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 12, 2025 at 8:33 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Angrboda - July 12, 2025 at 10:24 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2025 at 11:06 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 13, 2025 at 6:21 am
RE: Consciousness - by Deesse23 - July 3, 2025 at 12:16 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 3, 2025 at 12:21 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 3, 2025 at 3:24 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Thumpalumpacus - July 3, 2025 at 11:00 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 4, 2025 at 6:06 am
RE: Consciousness - by Thumpalumpacus - July 4, 2025 at 8:58 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 4, 2025 at 11:57 am
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 5, 2025 at 1:20 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 5, 2025 at 4:55 pm
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 5, 2025 at 5:14 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 5, 2025 at 5:25 pm
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 5, 2025 at 6:15 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 5, 2025 at 7:34 pm
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 5, 2025 at 8:02 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 5, 2025 at 9:48 pm
RE: Consciousness - by AFTT47 - July 5, 2025 at 7:36 pm
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 5, 2025 at 8:11 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 6, 2025 at 3:13 am
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 6, 2025 at 4:21 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 6, 2025 at 7:39 am
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 4, 2025 at 12:14 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 4, 2025 at 12:24 pm
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 5, 2025 at 1:17 pm
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 5, 2025 at 1:56 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 5, 2025 at 2:57 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Thumpalumpacus - July 5, 2025 at 3:05 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 5, 2025 at 3:20 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Thumpalumpacus - July 5, 2025 at 6:29 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ravenshire - July 6, 2025 at 5:06 pm
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 5, 2025 at 3:24 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 5, 2025 at 3:27 pm
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 5, 2025 at 3:29 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 5, 2025 at 3:31 pm
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 5, 2025 at 4:02 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 5, 2025 at 4:16 pm
RE: Consciousness - by GrandizerII - July 5, 2025 at 4:42 pm
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 5, 2025 at 4:53 pm
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 5, 2025 at 3:46 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 5, 2025 at 7:55 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 5, 2025 at 8:12 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 5, 2025 at 11:29 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 6, 2025 at 12:02 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 6, 2025 at 12:44 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 6, 2025 at 3:56 am
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 5, 2025 at 7:50 pm
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 5, 2025 at 5:31 pm
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 5, 2025 at 6:35 pm
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 6, 2025 at 10:07 am
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 6, 2025 at 12:47 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Angrboda - July 6, 2025 at 3:36 pm
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 6, 2025 at 5:40 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 6, 2025 at 8:06 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 6, 2025 at 9:40 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 7, 2025 at 5:39 am
RE: Consciousness - by arewethereyet - July 7, 2025 at 6:08 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 7, 2025 at 6:36 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 7, 2025 at 6:49 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 9, 2025 at 8:59 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 9, 2025 at 9:07 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 9, 2025 at 9:13 am
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 9, 2025 at 9:16 am
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 9, 2025 at 9:11 am
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 9, 2025 at 9:28 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 9, 2025 at 9:56 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 9, 2025 at 10:20 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 9, 2025 at 12:28 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 9, 2025 at 12:33 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 9, 2025 at 1:23 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 9, 2025 at 1:32 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 9, 2025 at 1:33 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Deesse23 - July 9, 2025 at 1:52 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 9, 2025 at 1:37 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 9, 2025 at 1:40 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Deesse23 - July 9, 2025 at 1:52 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 9, 2025 at 1:54 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 9, 2025 at 2:28 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 9, 2025 at 2:40 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 9, 2025 at 1:56 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 9, 2025 at 1:21 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 9, 2025 at 2:21 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 9, 2025 at 2:28 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 9, 2025 at 11:38 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 10, 2025 at 12:29 am
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 10, 2025 at 1:32 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 10, 2025 at 1:37 am
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 10, 2025 at 2:35 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 10, 2025 at 2:52 am
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 10, 2025 at 4:19 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 10, 2025 at 5:39 am
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 10, 2025 at 8:01 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 10, 2025 at 8:12 am
RE: Consciousness - by Angrboda - July 10, 2025 at 8:45 am
RE: Consciousness - by arewethereyet - July 9, 2025 at 6:50 pm
RE: Consciousness - by AFTT47 - July 10, 2025 at 2:01 am
RE: Consciousness - by The Grand Nudger - July 10, 2025 at 9:38 am
RE: Consciousness - by Mister Agenda - July 10, 2025 at 1:56 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 13, 2025 at 6:24 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 13, 2025 at 7:17 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 13, 2025 at 7:21 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 13, 2025 at 7:25 am
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 13, 2025 at 12:22 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 13, 2025 at 3:46 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 13, 2025 at 6:18 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Mister Agenda - July 14, 2025 at 12:25 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 13, 2025 at 7:42 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 13, 2025 at 9:03 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 14, 2025 at 4:56 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 14, 2025 at 8:26 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 14, 2025 at 9:02 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 14, 2025 at 9:19 am
RE: Consciousness - by Alan V - July 14, 2025 at 9:43 am
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 14, 2025 at 12:14 pm
RE: Consciousness - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 14, 2025 at 12:11 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Angrboda - July 13, 2025 at 9:56 pm
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 14, 2025 at 1:40 am
RE: Consciousness - by Thumpalumpacus - July 14, 2025 at 1:48 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 14, 2025 at 2:31 am
RE: Consciousness - by Paleophyte - July 14, 2025 at 3:23 am
RE: Consciousness - by Ahriman - July 14, 2025 at 8:25 am
RE: Consciousness - by Thumpalumpacus - July 14, 2025 at 10:56 am
RE: Consciousness - by Mister Agenda - July 14, 2025 at 12:37 pm

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