Belacqua, thank you for your thoughtful response and will take the time to study the works you mentioned.
A forum about philosophy seems appropriate enough, but it seems a much more narrow definition of philosophy may be employed here. Even if that is the case, trolls exist in every faith structure as a defense mechanism to ward off anyone that might threaten the loyalty of those weak in the faith. The commenters are oblivious to how identical their tactics are to the religious fanatics that have no logic or reason behind their words. I have been treated much worse by religious folks than any atheist could ever muster to do, so no I don't mind the disapproval at all.
While I agree with you that conflict, war, and misery are the historical outcomes of certain worldviews and traditions; however, these are not the stated goals. I am judging them based on what they communicate, not what they do or result in. Some see the path to peace being conquest or destruction of all opposing worldviews, but again the purpose of that conflict is to achieve peace ultimately once all their enemies are brought to bear. I am not agreeing with or validating their desired path to peace, only commenting on the fact that all traditions promise peace as the ultimate end of the struggle.
I wasn't specifically talking about a call for a strong man, but the systematic and automatic way that societies put one person as a head of state whether that be president, dictator, emperor, etc. One person being given the highest authority is the inevitability I speak of, not a prediction about how a person might rise to power in the eventual future where there is one governing body. History shows that trying to unite the world under one banner and putting one person in charge and calling that person divine has always been the model and continues to be the model. Trump recently posting himself as Jesus and North Korea worshipping their leader are two prime examples.
While every religion likes to use different terms, they are all the same thing repackaged. Denial of self, destruction of ego, and extinction of soul are all the same concept. As well as nirvana, bliss, enlightenment, higher plane of existence, and heaven all possess similar language in describing these places or states of being. While conflict might be valued in some worldviews, even the violent Viking warriors looked forward to their eternal peace in Valhalla as a reward for their violence.
While there are many theists and theologians that will mince words on defining omniscience, these are merely semantics regarding details that are unknown. But to entertain that thought for a moment, if one were to truly "know thyself" then their own personal being would also be contained within the knowledge that they knew therefore they would know all things and all knowledge would be contained in them. But we are also conflating the person of God vs the idea of God as an entity that contains within it all things. You can think of it as God Incorporated, otherwise known as the Kingdom of Heaven to some. God being the structure lead by the Heavenly Host, the Divine Counsel, the Godhead, the Trinity, or the Counsel of Gods. A god being defined as a being of immense power, and as you see in Marvel movies these heroes that possess such powers are referred to as Gods, like Thor, but admittedly his power is achieved through technology. If we apply a Christian understanding to this concept, Jesus is the COO and the Father is the CEO of God incorporated. All the mythical language used by religion confuses the obvious reality that everything we do as a society reflects and uses these same ideas.
Quote: Wrote:You make a lot of interesting points here. If this were a forum where we discussed this kind of thing, there would be a lot of food for thought.
Quote:
As you can see, this is not a forum where people discuss this kind of thing. I'd be happy to talk about it some more, if you don't mind everyone else's disapproval.
A forum about philosophy seems appropriate enough, but it seems a much more narrow definition of philosophy may be employed here. Even if that is the case, trolls exist in every faith structure as a defense mechanism to ward off anyone that might threaten the loyalty of those weak in the faith. The commenters are oblivious to how identical their tactics are to the religious fanatics that have no logic or reason behind their words. I have been treated much worse by religious folks than any atheist could ever muster to do, so no I don't mind the disapproval at all.
Quote: Wrote:I am more cynical than you are. I think that many traditions, and many individuals, desire conflict. Perhaps they will be satisfied when they have made a desert and call it peace. But I suspect at that point the people who made the desert will simply turn on each other.
While I agree with you that conflict, war, and misery are the historical outcomes of certain worldviews and traditions; however, these are not the stated goals. I am judging them based on what they communicate, not what they do or result in. Some see the path to peace being conquest or destruction of all opposing worldviews, but again the purpose of that conflict is to achieve peace ultimately once all their enemies are brought to bear. I am not agreeing with or validating their desired path to peace, only commenting on the fact that all traditions promise peace as the ultimate end of the struggle.
Quote: Wrote:It's commonly assumed that when a state descends too far into chaos (through corruption or maybe the failure of democracy) that the people will call for a strong man to save them. This may well happen again.
I'm not sure it's inevitable or desirable. But history rolls on, so we'll have to wait and see.
I wasn't specifically talking about a call for a strong man, but the systematic and automatic way that societies put one person as a head of state whether that be president, dictator, emperor, etc. One person being given the highest authority is the inevitability I speak of, not a prediction about how a person might rise to power in the eventual future where there is one governing body. History shows that trying to unite the world under one banner and putting one person in charge and calling that person divine has always been the model and continues to be the model. Trump recently posting himself as Jesus and North Korea worshipping their leader are two prime examples.
Quote: Wrote:This I think is questionable. Buddhists, for example, seek the extinction of the soul in nirvana. There is no eternal heaven of happiness, no resurrection once (after many reincarnations) nirvana is acquired.
And again, there seem to be worldviews in which conflict is valued. The desire to defeat one's enemies, through mental or physical violence, has great appeal for some people.
While every religion likes to use different terms, they are all the same thing repackaged. Denial of self, destruction of ego, and extinction of soul are all the same concept. As well as nirvana, bliss, enlightenment, higher plane of existence, and heaven all possess similar language in describing these places or states of being. While conflict might be valued in some worldviews, even the violent Viking warriors looked forward to their eternal peace in Valhalla as a reward for their violence.
Quote: Wrote:If we're using the theological definition of "omniscience," then a human individual having access to all knowledge would be different.
Knowing things generally is thought to consist of two things: the knowledge and the person who knows. In Christian theology, God is said to be omniscient not because he knows everything -- this would imply that there are things that are not God -- but because all knowledge is contained within God, is part of God, and is not something God could learn or forget.
While there are many theists and theologians that will mince words on defining omniscience, these are merely semantics regarding details that are unknown. But to entertain that thought for a moment, if one were to truly "know thyself" then their own personal being would also be contained within the knowledge that they knew therefore they would know all things and all knowledge would be contained in them. But we are also conflating the person of God vs the idea of God as an entity that contains within it all things. You can think of it as God Incorporated, otherwise known as the Kingdom of Heaven to some. God being the structure lead by the Heavenly Host, the Divine Counsel, the Godhead, the Trinity, or the Counsel of Gods. A god being defined as a being of immense power, and as you see in Marvel movies these heroes that possess such powers are referred to as Gods, like Thor, but admittedly his power is achieved through technology. If we apply a Christian understanding to this concept, Jesus is the COO and the Father is the CEO of God incorporated. All the mythical language used by religion confuses the obvious reality that everything we do as a society reflects and uses these same ideas.
