Afghanistan..troops out NOW!

[bozo]

Just so we're clear Pip ... I was specifically referring to the troops since it was "us" (the US & the UK) that instigated the conflict.
No, I don't view all human life as equal, in some parts of the world life is cheap.

If you are care more about a couple thousand dead soldiers than at least 2 million, maybe 4 million dead iraqi and afghanis civilians, you (in my humble opinion) are a sick person in the head. Or at least you have trouble seeing things as they are. By saying that life is cheap, you have made it true. The place where life seems to be cheapest is in your computer chair. I hope this isn't too mean, but what you said is absurd. Just absurd.

OK,

It would be absurd if I couldn't justify it but being me of course I can (whether you agree or not).

So you believe you care about 2 million Afghan dead more than you believe about, for example, your family, is that right?

If so (if that is what you are claiming) then I don't believe you quite simply because I would put my family before anyone else in the world. Then there's that tsunami (Dec 2004 I believe) ... 200,000 people were killed (maybe more) and yes it was horrific but one thing I am absolutely sure of and that is if 10,000 people in my own town had died in similar circumstances (or even dissimilar) that would have been way, way, way more shocking and I would have cared an awful lot more. If 1000 from my home town had died I'd have cared more, if 10 had died I'd probably have cared more. Why? Because these people are people I can relate to and/or I care about more than I do about a whole bunch of strangers around the Indian Ocean. And there's also the fact that I can't really deal with 1000 deaths let alone 200,000 or 2 million ... it's an entirely abstract concept.

So I care about my immediate family most, then my friends and more distant family (I'[d probably put my friends ahead of distant family but that's just me), then people in my community, then my country and then (probably) Europe and America because of cultural similarities and finally places I can't identify with at all like Afghanistan.

So whether you think I'm sick person or not (like I really give a flying [expletive deleted] what you personally think of me, I'm only doing this to justify my position to others and to stop you getting the last word) yeah ... I value others in very different ways and many people have many different values to me for many different reasons ... and yes, having been in the UK army, 20000 British soldiers mean a whole lot more to me than a bunch of Afghani's I have never met.

I would also say that you and others who claim to value life equally are a bunch of deluded fools because it's not what humans do and I suspect you (and they) do it more out of some kind of politically correct (SPIT!) motivation than for any other reason.

So yeah absurd it may be (I don't agree) but nowhere near as absurd as being a scientifically ignorant fool who believes fairy tales over reality.

Kyu

Kyu, you really are full of contradictions!
In your earlier post on this thread you said you agree in principle with " regime change ". Question arises as to why? In this post you seem not to take a world view, so why subscribe to " regime changes "?
By the way, when we last locked horns over Obama's attempt at providing universal healthcare for America, you forcefully ( as ever ) expressed the opinion that you didn't care one bit about the people this would benefit.

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I can see both sides of this argument but I agree more with Pippy. I feel sad for our troops that die but most of them joined after 9/11 and knew they would be actually going to war. It was a choice. It is not a choice for these invaded countries to put up with the innocent civilians being killed. Maybe this is terrible but I don't really consider most soldiers heroes. They are just doing their jobs.

I also don't think you can compare Afghanistan with WWII... first of all, many of the soldiers in WWII didn't chose to go, they were drafted- sent to die by their own countries. I do believe we needed to fight Hitler though, I don't think he is a comparison to Osama or Hussein.

The sad truth about 20th/21st century warfare is the fact that more civilians die than combatants and they usually have no choice in the matter.
Interesting that you use the word " heroes ". I maintain that in war terms, only a survivor could be classed a " hero ", the dead are all " victims ".
I agree 100% with your second para.