I believe the real problem in this discussion is choice vs. freewill. I train dogs to obey certain commands, yet at times they will refuse to do so, this is a deliberate choice. As for what the reasons, I'm not always sure, I do not see it as freewill. Min added to Tack's analogy that animals kill for a reason (survival), and man kills for a reason (war, hate, self defense, law enforcement and ect.) or for no reason (mentally ill).
Rhythm wrote that animals such as the chimps and domesticated cats kill for no reason, I disagree. The domesticated cat will kill mice, birds, rabbits and ect. and leave them lying around uneaten, they do this out of instinct, an instinct that's been altered because of their domestication and thus will leave a kill uneaten. As for the chimps no one has proven they kill other chimps for no reason, the video he posted shows chimps in cooperation which IMO shows they had a reason.
The above shows all had a choice except for the mentally ill person, thus choices were made both by animals and man. The difference that I see in this, that man made moral choices and animals made instinctual choices. Moral choices = freewill Instinctual choices = no freewill
Rhythm wrote that animals such as the chimps and domesticated cats kill for no reason, I disagree. The domesticated cat will kill mice, birds, rabbits and ect. and leave them lying around uneaten, they do this out of instinct, an instinct that's been altered because of their domestication and thus will leave a kill uneaten. As for the chimps no one has proven they kill other chimps for no reason, the video he posted shows chimps in cooperation which IMO shows they had a reason.
The above shows all had a choice except for the mentally ill person, thus choices were made both by animals and man. The difference that I see in this, that man made moral choices and animals made instinctual choices. Moral choices = freewill Instinctual choices = no freewill
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
